Ryan Dancey: This is why there was no M:tG setting for D&D

Hi! I was the brand manager for Dungeons & Dragons and the VP of Tabletop RPGs at Wizards of the Coast from 1998 to 2000. I can answer this question. There were plans to do a Magic RPG and several iterations of such a game were developed at various times. After Wizards of the Coast bought TSR, there were discussions about making a Magic campaign setting for D&D. After the release of 3rd...

Hi! I was the brand manager for Dungeons & Dragons and the VP of Tabletop RPGs at Wizards of the Coast from 1998 to 2000. I can answer this question.

There were plans to do a Magic RPG and several iterations of such a game were developed at various times. After Wizards of the Coast bought TSR, there were discussions about making a Magic campaign setting for D&D.

After the release of 3rd edition, we had planned to do a Monstrous Compendium for Magic monsters which would have been a tentative cross-over product to see what the interest level was for such a book.

In the end, the company made the decision to keep the brands totally separate. Here's the logic.

D&D and Magic have fundamentally incompatible brand strategies. This is was once expressed as "asses, monsters & friends".

D&D is the game where you and your friends kick the asses of monsters.

Magic is the game where you kick your friends' asses with monsters.

(Pokemon, btw, was the game where the monsters, who were your friends, kicked each-other's asses.)

There was no good reason to believe that a D&D/Magic crossover book would sell demonstrably more than a comparable non crossover book. And such a book should be priced higher than a generic D&D book - in the way that Forgotten Realms books cost more than generic D&D books (that's the price premium for the brand). There's a fear in sales that the higher the price, the less volume you sell.

The brand team for Magic didn't want to dilute the very honed brand positioning for Magic as a competitive brand, and the brand team for D&D didn't want to try and make some kind of competitive game extension for D&D.

In the end, I think the company was well served by this decision. It eliminated a lot of distraction and inter-team squabbling at a time when neither team had the resources to fight those battles.

Today you might argue there's a different reason. The #1 hobby CCG doesn't want to be entangled with the problems within the D&D brand.

Read more: http://www.enworld.org/forum/conten...-Many-Arrows-Can-An-Archer-Fire#ixzz2jgoO0Whj
 

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Ryan S. Dancey

Ryan S. Dancey

OGL Architect

billd91

Not your screen monkey (he/him)
Seven years later and I think it's been thoroughly proven how wrong Dancey was about keeping the two separate.

I don't see how. Nothing about what's going on now disproves the historical reasons he provides, nor does it disprove that brand managers on the Magic side wouldn't want to get involved in the Edition War that simmered over 4e. Ravnica and Theros both came out long after the Edition War died down, when D&D's brand was surging in strength and acceptance.
 

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MoonSong

Rules-lawyering drama queen but not a munchkin
Except that the MtG setting books, including the planeshift articles are pretty rad and have been wanted by many DnD players who also played MtG. I've no idea how it is gonna go with the Forgotten Realms MtG setting, but the MtG books for DnD are definitely welcome by a lot of DnD players.
I have a printer that needs to be put to work after months of inactivity. Maybe I should print the planeshift articles to have them as hard copy in my shelf?
 


Seven years later and I think it's been thoroughly proven how wrong Dancey was about keeping the two separate.

I think Dancey made the right call keeping them separate in 200X. I think WotC made the right call in 2013. I think they're making a good business move now.

I don't follow MtG very closely, but one of the biggest factors to me is that they didn't start with D&D as third party lore. By doing things like Godzilla first, they have shown that even though 3rd party IP is coming in, it doesn't mean the two are permanently related. D&D and MtG will still be separate entities. In both of the previous eras mentioned, there is a huge risk this would not be viewed the same way by the fan base.
 

CleverNickName

Limit Break Dancing
Hmmm, this has got me thinking about Shadowmoor and Ravnica...

Vinn.png
 

Gadget

Adventurer
I think the gulf of years between the decisions in 2000 & 2013 make this a less obvious call than it appears on the surface. There was quite a bit of fear among the fan base when WOTC took over that they would 'besmirch' D&D with all that 'Pokeman-like Magic stuff'. Things were a lot more tribal back then. WOTC needed some time to display their dedication to D&D, along with the traditions & lore that came with it. Fortunately, 3.x was successful and--along with the OGL--created quite an Eco-system for D&D. In 2013, D&D was still the throes of an Edition War and under fire for turning D&D into a 'video game' with 4e and needed to generate more goodwill among the customer base. Now, with 5e successful beyond almost any of its predecessors and penetrating more deeply into the general public than it has since possibly the early 'fad' days (perhaps arguably more), they can afford to try different things and attitudes have changed.
 
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Maybe both franchises are ready, but I guess the plans by Hasbro is to open a future door to allow crazy ideas about intercompany crossovers for marketing reasons. I notice it sounds as a fool ideal, but we have to remember the crossovers as Transformers and Star Trek, Terminator, Ghostbusters, Back to the Future or My Little Pony. Who would buy this? Speculators to wait and later to sell to collectors, because intercompany crossovers are as "limited editions".

I have said several times Hasbro's plans for its IPs is to make these to become multimedia franchises.

Maybe after FR the next D&D world to be a "guest artist" in M:tG is Birthright. Why? Precisely because it's not an one of the main lines they allow themself higher risks without worring too much about the reaction by the fandom because here this is smaller.
 



Red Steel is very possible, but this has to come together with the complete pack of Mystara.

Dark Sun is a jewel, but they notice they have to become the right hands to not spoil it. The art is a good hook, and it will need a lot of special work. Maybe we also see a DS videogame.
 

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