SA-Dmg Against Rogue/Flying Boots

[Tyrloch]

Hey gang,

2 questions: First, can a rogue with Imp. Feint get SA damage on another rogue? Assume that the feinting rogue is about 6th or 7th lvl, and the victim is 4th or so. The problem I have is that Uncanny Doge states that the rogue retains Dex bonus to AC even if caught flat-footed or struck by an invisible attacker, but Feint states that on a successful roll, the target doesn't get to use his Dex bonus to AC. I've searched the entire PHB for a definitive answer, but there doesn't seem to be one.

Second, if a character is soaring around in his little silver Boots of Flying, and someone casts Dispell Magic on them, does the character plummet to earth or slowly float to the ground? Thanks in advance for any light you can shed on these dilemmas.

~Jace

 

[Darklone]

You can SA a "feinted" opponent just as you can do it with a stunned one... or helpless. Uncanny Dodge is rather restrictive.

And if flying is dispelled, you float slowly to the ground just as you would if the spell Fly ends.

 

[irdeggman]

The text for uncanny dodge says "even if" which means that the list is not all-inclusive. It then goes on to say when a rogue is denied his Dex bonus 9i.e., when immobilized). Hence you can't feint and get him to be denied his dex bonus to AC.

As far as the other one goes - good question. Dispel Magic "suppresses" magic item's magic and spells are ended.


per the fly spell:

Should the spell duration expire while the subject is still aloft, the magic fails slowly. The subject floats downward 60 feet per round for 1d6 rounds. If it reaches the ground in that amount of time, it lands safely. If not, it falls the rest of the distance, taking 1d6 points of damage per 10 feet of fall. Since dispelling a spell effectively ends it, the subject also descends in this way if the fly spell is dispelled, but not if it is negated by an antimagic field.

 

[moritheil]

How literal do you want to be?

Uncanny Dodge (Ex)

Starting at 4th level, a rogue can react to danger before her senses would normally allow her to do so. She retains her Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) even if she is caught flat-footed or struck by an invisible attacker. However, she still loses her Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized.

As darklone says, if you interpret the uncanny dodge text literally and limit its benefit to only what is said there (not allowing any implications) you wind up concluding that feinting is not expressly forbidden and thus is allowed to strip Dex to AC.

As irdeggman pointed out, you could also interpret it as being inclusive, which is to say that it provides defense against everything except being immobilized.

Really, the rules don't explicitly state how it interacts with feinting.

Feint isn't that helpful either:

Feinting in Combat

You can also use Bluff to mislead an opponent in melee combat (so that it can’t dodge your next attack effectively). To feint, make a Bluff check opposed by your target’s Sense Motive check, but in this case, the target may add its base attack bonus to the roll along with any other applicable modifiers.
If your Bluff check result exceeds this special Sense Motive check result, your target is denied its Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) for the next melee attack you make against it. This attack must be made on or before your next turn.

Is it just like catching the target flat-footed? Conceptually, perhaps, in which case Uncanny Dodge protects against it - but the rules don't say that, so a strict reading would not allow you to conclude that.

 

[irdeggman]

Now per the FAQ (the specific question was asked):

Does uncanny dodge protect a character from losing his Dexterity bonus to AC to a successful feint?

No. Uncanny dodge doesn’t protect you from all situations that would deny you your Dexterity bonus to AC. It only lets you retain your Dexterity bonus if “caught flat-footed or struck by an invisible attacker.” A feint doesn’t render a target flatfooted, it just doesn’t allow him to use his Dexterity bonus to AC against your next melee attack made on or before your next turn.

Does uncanny dodge make you immune to feinting in combat?

No. If uncanny dodge said “you never lose your Dexterity bonus to AC,” the answer would be yes, but that’s not what it says. Uncanny dodge allows you to retain your Dexterity bonus to AC when flat-footed or struck by an invisible attacker. Although a feint creates a very similar situation (by disallowing the defender from using his Dexterity bonus to AC), it doesn’t specifically render the character flat-footed. (For example, the target of a successful feint still threatens the feinting character.) Thus, uncanny dodge wouldn’t negate the effect.

So I will reverse my opinion based on the "clarification" from the FAQ (whether or not I agree with it - it is "official")

 

[Tyrloch]

Thanks guys, that pretty much clears things up.

~Jace