Sacred Fist

[Macbrea]

Quote on SRD

Gauntlet: These metal gloves protect the hands and let character's deal normal damage with unarmed strikes rather than subdual damage. A strike with a gauntlet is otherwise considered an unarmed attack. The cost and weight given are for a single gauntlet.

Medium and heavy armors (except breastplate) come with gauntlets.


You will note that gauntlets are in the weapon section and cannot be enchanted in the DMG. The Sage ruled that they are non-monk weapons. Which is fine. You will also note that they are not part of light armor. Which means your sacred fist doesn't have to take them off. As he didn't have them in the first place.

For the purposes of a touch attack off a spell they are considered an unarmed attack that deal normal damage instead of subdual.

In order to not provoke an AoO a person needs to have Improved unarmed attack or have a spell on his hands. This would make him dangerous and therefor a threat to the squares around him.

 

[cybernetic]

I would say they do (count as weapons)... they are listed in the weapons part of the equipment chapter and have a weapon proficiency level.

Rav

But technicially so is Unarmed Strike...so does that make unarmed strikes a weapon, therefore making the Sacred Fist abilities useless..


(i'm not attacking you or anything Rav...just playin the Antagonist )

 

[Macbrea]

Is there restriction that they cannot use a weapon at all. Or that they cannot use any weapon besides Strike, Unarmed? There is a big difference between those two.

One says I am a pacifists and useless in a DnD world as an adventurer and the other says I refuse to use any weapon besides my fist, head, or feet.

 

[Zhure]

Is there restriction that they cannot use a weapon at all. Or that they cannot use any weapon besides Strike, Unarmed? There is a big difference between those two.

One says I am a pacifists and useless in a DnD world as an adventurer and the other says I refuse to use any weapon besides my fist, head, or feet.

Defenders of the Faith, page 70:
"Sacred fists have forsworn the use of weapons and Code of Conduct: A member of a sacred fist order refuses to use any weapon. A sacred fist who knowingly carries or uses a weapon loses all class spells and features and advances no farther as a
sacred fist until he atones for his action (see the atonement spell description,page 176 of the Players Handbook)."

I wonder if a Sacred Fist who was also a Drunken Master and had the ability to use weapons of opportunity... how often would he have to atone to use his abilities? LOL

 

[Malin Genie]

I'm also looking for ideas for the bonus domain for a PC Sacred Fist, something other than the obvious "Celerity."

I emailed the Sage a little while back asking about whether "one domain from the deity's list" included PrDs or was restricted to regular domains.

He answered "Only regular (not Prestige) Domains can be chosen" (also, interestingly, if you have cleric and SF levels then ATTS you can choose the same domain as both a cleric and a Sacred Fist, and for the purposes of domain power the levels in the two classes stack.)

So Celerity is not an 'obvious' choice - it's not even legal!

 

[Metalsmith]

Defenders of the Faith, page 70:
"Sacred fists have forsworn the use of weapons and Code of Conduct: A member of a sacred fist order refuses to use any weapon. A sacred fist who knowingly carries or uses a weapon loses all class spells and features and advances no farther as a
sacred fist until he atones for his action (see the atonement spell description,page 176 of the Players Handbook)."

Gauntlets are Weapons: I think it all resolves itself around your Intent. If you strap on gauntlets to use to protect your hands and look mean thats perfectly acceptable. The moment you use them to benifit you for Hitting or Damage (such as Silver or +1 Gauntlets) you are breaking your vows and must atone. The same goes for Armor Spikes.

Metalsmith

 

[Zhure]

Re: Re: Sacred Fist

I emailed the Sage a little while back asking about whether "one domain from the deity's list" included PrDs or was restricted to regular domains.

He answered "Only regular (not Prestige) Domains can be chosen" (also, interestingly, if you have cleric and SF levels then ATTS you can choose the same domain as both a cleric and a Sacred Fist, and for the purposes of domain power the levels in the two classes stack.)

So Celerity is not an 'obvious' choice - it's not even legal!

Sacred Fist, from page 70
"Free Domain:Upon adopting the sacred fist class,
the character chooses one domain from his deity's list."

and, from page 77

"Several of the prestige classes described in Chapter 3 allow a member of that class to select a third domain, which gives an additional granted power and offers one more spell option for the character to choose as a domain spell.This domain can be one of the standard domains available to clerics of the character's patron deity,or it can be one of the prestige domains described
below. These domains are only available to characters entering a prestige class that allows selection of a third domain;they are not available to newly created characters."

Somehow the Sage turns this into "one non-prestige domain." I hate it when he just makes stuff up.

Greg

 

[Zhure]

Gauntlets are Weapons: I think it all resolves itself around your Intent. If you strap on gauntlets to use to protect your hands and look mean thats perfectly acceptable. The moment you use them to benifit you for Hitting or Damage (such as Silver or +1 Gauntlets) you are breaking your vows and must atone. The same goes for Armor Spikes.

Metalsmith

Intent is impossible to guage. Relegating the decision to function is a little more practical. I'm looking at guantlets not being part of light armor making them unusuable by Sacred Fists (as I pointed out way up there >points<).
Greg

 

[Metalsmith]

Intent is impossible to guage. Relegating the decision to function is a little more practical. I'm looking at guantlets not being part of light armor making them unusuable by Sacred Fists (as I pointed out way up there >points<).

Intent is possible to gauge, its how Spring Attack works, the intent to attack your opponent. You will have to be a little more clear on your question or even the purpose of the question.

Can a Sacred Fist use a guantlet? Or is it a weapon? It overrides a monk's unarmed damage.

What about armor spikes? Are they weapons?

Setting Intent aside. I would say, Sacred Fists can use gauntlets. They have an Armor Check Penalty of 0, a Arcane spell failure chance of 0%, and a Max Dex mod of +infinte. Gauntlets are Weapons only if the Wearer specificly attacks with them. Then the Sacred Fist would have to atone. It does not override a monk's unarmed damage. When a monk attacks unarmed he is attacking with his whole body not just his hands. A sacred fist can then use his Unarmed Attacks as normal or chose to attack Unarmed with Gauntlets thereby breaking his vows.

The same goes for Armor Spikes.

Metalsmith

 

[Metalsmith]

Re: Re: Re: Sacred Fist

"Several of the prestige classes described in Chapter 3 allow a member of that class to select a third domain, which gives an additional granted power and offers one more spell option for the character to choose as a domain spell.This domain can be one of the standard domains available to clerics of the character's patron deity,or it can be one of the prestige domains described
below. These domains are only available to characters entering a prestige class that allows selection of a third domain;they are not available to newly created characters."

Somehow the Sage turns this into "one non-prestige domain." I hate it when he just makes stuff up.
Greg

Unfortunately they still have you covered unless you already have 2 domains you're not selecting a third.
This is what we get when you've got 2 diffent people writing the same book.
Sacred Fist is also the only Prestige Class in the book that specificly mentions getting a Free Domain. The others all say Prestige Domain. So either it was a Mistake, or They did it on purpose. I dunno their Intent is kinda Murky.


Metalsmith