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Sage Advice: Plane and world hopping (includes how Eberron and Ravnica fit in D&D cosmology)

gyor

Legend
https://youtu.be/9JHyJj8C21c

[video=youtube_share;9JHyJj8C21c]https://youtu.be/9JHyJj8C21c[/video]

Very interest video, almost like a Lore You Should Know, but more current.

Ways to travel between worlds, Spelljammers, Astral, Ethereal, Feywild, Shadowfell Planes, Sigil Portals.

Eberron is a part of the D&D multiverse, but it's Crystal Sphere is designed to isolate it from everything else, and within it's Crystal Sphere Eberrons planes are contained, so weirdly Eberrons Planes are a part of the Material Plane as well, or in a sense might all be echo planes like the Feywild and Shadowfell are for other worlds (or perhaps special, really big demiplanes).

Eberron's Crystal Sphere is cracking, dropping those shards, and possibly eventually allowing say a Spelljammer to visit. Oh and a portal or portals to Eberron exist in Sigil.

Ravnica was just resently discovered, the material plane is a big place, may have a Crystal Sphere, Tito kind if confused the issue. I wish the Jeremy had ebalerated more on how Ravnica fits in . Also suggested that Astral and Ethereal Plane exist in Ravnica (as a suggested as ways Ravnica co have been discovered).

I can't help, but wonder if this hints at future changes to how the Planes work in MtG if people from traditional D&D worlds are now making contact with them.

Tito said they'd discuss how Ravenloft and Innistrad can both exist (my suggestion, make Innistrad a domain with Eberron, with ties to MtG planes, which influences it, so you could use Ravenloft/Innistrad as a back door to the other MtG planes (Crystal Spheres).

Since Eberrons planes are techniquely apart of or contained within the Material Plane, they should be connected by Eberron's Ethereal Plane.
 

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gyor

Legend
Oh and Teleportation circles can be used to travel between worlds that reside on the same plane, but you need to know it's sigil (not Sigil). That makes it so the DM is still in control (he or she can say you have no knowledge of the sigil and maybe never get access to that knowledge.
 

Dausuul

Legend
So they're attempting to unify the D&D multiverse, including Spelljammer's crystal spheres, with the Eberron cosmology and the cosmology of Magic: The Gathering? That's gonna get... interesting.

Now I see why they've been reviving Spelljammer, which was not all that popular in 2E days (overshadowed by the wildly successful Planescape) and has languished for 20 years. Spelljammer's crystal spheres map quite well onto the small, self-contained planes of Magic, and the phlogiston corresponds nicely to the Blind Eternities. I'm less convinced that Eberron fits neatly into this scheme, but no doubt with a little shoehorning they can make it work.
 

AmerginLiath

Explorer
Having not played Planescape or Spelljammer as they were, is this elegant form of combining the Prime Material Plane and Phlogiston/Crystal Spheres original here or based off older editions? I’m used to the classic “alternate Prime Material Planes” of 1st Edition, and Planescape and Spelljammer have always struck me as trying to travel the same paths through different paths (per the concepts of perception in PS) in the past. I like how the PMP is done here, even if Eberron (and my beloved Dragonlance) takes a bit of ‘splainin to do.
 


Dungeonosophy

Adventurer
In the 1E MotP, each of the D&D Worlds was a distinct Alternate Prime Material Plane. Not same Prime Material. That only came in 2E.

Wish he'd spoken more of how the 4E / Nerath cosmology fits into 5E.

3E worlds had relationship - they shared the same Plane of Shadow.

Crawford got derailed - He didn't complete the overview and he didn't really address whether and how the different firmaments/crystal spheres work in 5E. Astral skiffs = spelljammers? Astral Sea = Phlogiston?

Interviewer incorrect in saying that D&D worlds were originally separate. There were cross-overs between Mystara, FR, and Greyhawk even in old BECMI Gazetteers in the 1980s.

Crawford ought to have listed all of the worlds.

Interesting how Eberron cosmology was fitted into 5E.

Each DM's campaign is a completely different D&D Multiverse.

Overall, pretty cool. Thanks to the interviewer and interviewee.
 
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robus

Lowcountry Low Roller
Supporter
Bad food is made without pride, by cooks who have no pride, and no love. Bad food is made by chefs who are indifferent, or who are trying to be everything to everybody, who are trying to please everyone... Bad food is fake food... food that shows fear and lack of confidence in people's ability to discern or to make decisions about their lives.

-Anthony Bourdain (RIP :( )

Yeah - I don't get the urge to connect everything up. I guess there's a decent number of people who like to plane hop as it were, but for me I want my adventuring worlds to have a particular thematic feel.
 

Larrin

Entropic Good
I have no real objection to "They can be in the same multiverse because magic" What is painful, bad-food to me is over-explaining how every aspect of it of one world is shoved into a box (or crystal sphere, I guess) and stuck in some sort of separate-but-present paradox as if it doesn't inherently cheapen the world's uniqueness. The way you get from faerun to ebberon is you say "we're going to ebberon through a magic portal" You don't have to justify how or why ebberon's plane of fire (or whatever it has) is different from planescape's. If they're different, they just are, because it's magic and imaginary and more fun that way. Don't try and pretend "No, this all makes sense, I can make everything make sense, I MUST make it all make sense...." as if what you're doing isn't silly and perhaps a little dumb.
 

MechaTarrasque

Adventurer
One of the cycles of gaming life: gamers going "I want setting X for the new edition", the devs saying "here is setting X for the new edition", and within 48 hours, gamers are already complaining about "how they have ruined setting X."
 

Bitbrain

Black Lives Matter
Eberron is a part of the D&D multiverse, but it's Crystal Sphere is designed to isolate it from everything else . . .

So, Eberron, Khyber, and Siberys were basically really, really big primordials that didn't want to get involved in the Dawn War?

That's cool.

. . . and within it's Crystal Sphere Eberrons planes are contained, so weirdly Eberrons Planes are a part of the Material Plane as well . . .

Not gonna lie, I've always felt that most of eberron's outer planes (Not necessarily all of them) would have worked better if they aren't really different planes of existence, but actually the moons of Eberron.

Eberron's Crystal Sphere is cracking, dropping those shards, and possibly eventually allowing say a Spelljammer to visit.

Ooh, I like this idea!
 

MechaTarrasque

Adventurer
So, Eberron, Khyber, and Siberys were basically really, really big primordials that didn't want to get involved in the Dawn War?

That's cool.



Not gonna lie, I've always felt that most of eberron's outer planes (Not necessarily all of them) would have worked better if they aren't really different planes of existence, but actually the moons of Eberron.



Ooh, I like this idea!

Is it too early to predict that one of 2019's AP's will focus on FR-based PC's visiting Eberron: pick an evil FR organization is getting cheap magic items from Eberron in exchange for 1 artifact going to pick an evil Eberron organization.....?
 

Bitbrain

Black Lives Matter
Is it too early to predict that one of 2019's AP's will focus on FR-based PC's visiting Eberron: pick an evil FR organization is getting cheap magic items from Eberron in exchange for 1 artifact going to pick an evil Eberron organization.....?

My old DM already used something similar to that idea, although there was no Eberron faction involved.

In his game, a bunch of derro in the Underdark combined their magic together and created a portal to Eberron, through which they started smuggling abandoned technology. Said derro eventually overthrew the duergar, defeated the drow (causing most of the dark elves to flee back to the surface, where most of them adopted the worship of Eilistrae. Those few still loyal to lolth remained underground, using guerilla tactics against the derro), and tried to invade the surface.

My group managed to repel the "mad gnomes" (as we called them), kill the savants who had created the portal, and then permanently deactivate the portal with a natural 20 dispel magic Charisma check (by yours truly).

Although we were triumphant, the derro had still acquired enough technology to maintain their dominance in the Underdark, and the Church of Tiamat decided to use the ensuing political chaos as an excuse to try and summon the Dragon Queen to Faerun.

EDIT
It was at this point in the campaign that things kicked into high gear. It was awesome.
 

guachi

Explorer
I never ever found the need to connect all the D&D worlds together. The fact I keep hearing D&D employees talking about it makes me think they are spending valuable time on an unnecessary topic.
 

DEFCON 1

Legend
Supporter
I never ever found the need to connect all the D&D worlds together. The fact I keep hearing D&D employees talking about it makes me think they are spending valuable time on an unnecessary topic.

As opposed to spending their valuable time on someone else's unnecessary topic that you actually like?
 

I fall into the camp of not caring if and how they are connected.

And honestly, them being connected only matters if you need a reliable way to get from one setting to another, which is a pretty rare occurrence to worry about. Seriously, I have trouble getting players to involve themselves in the themes, cultures and politics of one world, why would I take them to another world?

And, if you absolutely need something you've got the Shadowfell, Feywild, Astral Sea and places like Mechanos to fiddle around with.

You want to do it, go right ahead, but it adds nothing to my DnD experience
 

gyor

Legend
So they're attempting to unify the D&D multiverse, including Spelljammer's crystal spheres, with the Eberron cosmology and the cosmology of Magic: The Gathering? That's gonna get... interesting.

Now I see why they've been reviving Spelljammer, which was not all that popular in 2E days (overshadowed by the wildly successful Planescape) and has languished for 20 years. Spelljammer's crystal spheres map quite well onto the small, self-contained planes of Magic, and the phlogiston corresponds nicely to the Blind Eternities. I'm less convinced that Eberron fits neatly into this scheme, but no doubt with a little shoehorning they can make it work.

Not as hard as you thing, just make the blind eternities a dangerous region of the Phlogeneon.
 

gyor

Legend
So, Eberron, Khyber, and Siberys were basically really, really big primordials that didn't want to get involved in the Dawn War?

That's cool.



Not gonna lie, I've always felt that most of eberron's outer planes (Not necessarily all of them) would have worked better if they aren't really different planes of existence, but actually the moons of Eberron.



Ooh, I like this idea!

Yeah it's a great plot hook.
 

Dungeonosophy

Adventurer
guachi said:
I never ever found the need to connect all the D&D worlds together. The fact I keep hearing D&D employees talking about it makes me think they are spending valuable time on an unnecessary topic.

I fall into the camp of not caring if and how they are connected.

And honestly, them being connected only matters if you need a reliable way to get from one setting to another, which is a pretty rare occurrence to worry about. Seriously, I have trouble getting players to involve themselves in the themes, cultures and politics of one world, why would I take them to another world?

And, if you absolutely need something you've got the Shadowfell, Feywild, Astral Sea and places like Mechanos to fiddle around with.

You want to do it, go right ahead, but it adds nothing to my DnD experience

Thanks guachi and Chaosmancer for sharing about your campaign worlds. Yep, your version of the D&D Multiverse consists of just one world, along with those few extraplanar places you mentioned.

In contrast, the published D&D Multiverse has always consisted of a number of different D&D Worlds, and there have always been cross-overs between *all* of them, even back in the 1970s and 1980s. Oerth existed alongside its parallel Earths: Yarth, Aerth, and Uerth. Murlynd visited Earth, where he got his six-shooters. The original Greyhawk campaign also visited Lewis Carrol's Wonderland and Edgar Rice Burrough's Barsoom (Mars). The Mystara Gazetteers included appendices which detailed gates between Mystara, Oerth, and Toril. The Book of Marvellous Magic had Alternate World Gates which brought characters to and from Mystara, Oerth, Boot Hill, Gamma World, Star Frontiers, Dawn Patrol, and Gangbusters. Ed Greenwood had "real world" Egyptians and Mesopotamians journey from Earth to Toril. One of Mystara's most (in)famous NPC families (the Ambrevilles) came from Earth (aka Laterre). The 1e Dragonlance hardcover had rules for bringing characters from other D&D worlds. The Wizards Three (Elminster, Dalamar, and Mordenkainen) from three different D&D worlds, visited each other in Wisconsin. As you surely know, there were hundreds of Planescape, Ravenloft, and Spelljammer products (along with Chronomancer) which featured all sorts of storied connections between D&D Worlds. There were whole novels written about characters who adventured from one world to the next. Even in 3E, which differentiated each world with a distinct planar cosmology--all the worlds were still connected via the Plane of Shadow, which also connected with the d20 Modern settings such as Urban Arcana. 4E explicitly made events, such as the Dawn War, occur in all the published worlds. The 5E PHB and DMG are the first to explicitly list all of the classic D&D worlds. WotC reps have repeatedly said that all the D&D worlds still exist in 5E, and that all the worlds reside in the same Multiverse (as they have in every edition), and that they'll "all" be re-visited in 5E, eventually.

These connections already exist. Every edition of D&D has portrayed the D&D Multiverse as consisting of multiple campaign worlds which can be visited at the DM's discretion. It's not like Crawford is sitting down inventing connections out of the blue. He's just restating that 44-year-long interconnectedness in 5E terms.

Furthermore, Magic: The Gathering, like D&D, is also based on a Multiverse of multiple worlds...and Magic fans don't complain...they're not overwhelmed by the connections. And now we're finding out that the M:TG worlds exist in the D&D Multiverse, as a sort of greater "WotC Multiverse." That is a new connection, but it's still only an expansion of the existing multiplicity of the D&D Multiverse.

Guachi and Chaosmancer, I respect that you're both DMs whose discretion is to stick to one world, and that's that. Cool. Yet I'd prefer you refrain from so grumpily misrepresenting what the published D&D Multiverse has been all along: interconnected.
 
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ccs

40th lv DM
I fall into the camp of not caring if and how they are connected.

And honestly, them being connected only matters if you need a reliable way to get from one setting to another, which is a pretty rare occurrence to worry about. Seriously, I have trouble getting players to involve themselves in the themes, cultures and politics of one world, why would I take them to another world?

And, if you absolutely need something you've got the Shadowfell, Feywild, Astral Sea and places like Mechanos to fiddle around with.

You want to do it, go right ahead, but it adds nothing to my DnD experience

We always found the spell Planeshift to be sufficient.
 

MarkB

Legend
I never ever found the need to connect all the D&D worlds together. The fact I keep hearing D&D employees talking about it makes me think they are spending valuable time on an unnecessary topic.

Yeah, I never saw the appeal. In particular, I really like Eberron's unique planar cosmology, and don't see the need to homogenise it into a generic multiverse.
 

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