D&D 5E Sage Advice September 2016

[Tony Vargas]

The 3rd edition charge was rather complicated. I fully understand they didn't want something like that in the basic rules.

In fact, I can see why they didn't want more options to regular combat at all. Reserving charges for feats (or class options) keeps the basic plethora of combat options small and simple.

4e charge wasn't so complicated. But, as in 3e, there were some pretty out there 'charge builds,' the result of too many little things stacking with charge (and of getting away from multiple attacks as a major source of dpr scaling). 5e's treatment of charge looks like another pendulum-swing away from the prior edition(s). Charge was too complicated/optimal, so take it away completely rather than try to fix it, then to forestall complaints that you 'can't charge,' add back a sub-optimal feat to let you do it if you really want to.

Anyway, it's not like it's hard to add back a simple Charge option as an Action. Especially if you're not opting into feats, so won't feel the need to balance it against nor fix Charger.

Or whatever. :shrug:

The problem is, if charging lets you gain more ground in general, why doesn't everybody do it?

Historically, everybody did do it. Both to cover ground quickly, and to use the momentum (and intimidation) to break enemy lines. Everybody used the longest spears & biggest shields they could manage, too, which D&D also has an inexplicable prejudice against. I guess D&D figures those're appeals to tradition or popularity or something. ;P

I think charger is terrible. A "dash as a bonus action" feat would have been better for "charger", maybe letting you give up extra attacks to gain bonus damage on the one attack so it's a charge and a single attack. I too believe that "charge" should be a basic option. More on that later!

Charge Action possibilities:

• (Action) You choose an enemy and move up to your speed towards that enemy, attacking as soon as it is within reach. Your turn ends immediately after you resolve this attack.
• (Special) If you use your Action to Dash to close with an enemy, after using all your available movement that turn to move towards that enemy, you can declare a 'Charge' and make an attack against that enemy as a bonus action.
• (Action) You can move up to your speed (as if you were using the Dash action) and still attack (once), but all of your movement that turn must be in a straight line, and you cannot move after completing the single attack.

Possibilities for Charger: (corresponding to the above)

• You gain Combat Advantage on your attack when you Charge, and your turn does not end when you complete a Charge, instead, you can use any remaining movement or attacks you're entitled to on your turn including using a bonus action after you charge).
• When you declare a Charge you Dash as a bonus action, then use an action to attack, including making extra attacks if you are entitled to them.
• When you take the Charge action your movement prior to the action need not have been in a straight line (only the movement you take as part of the Charge), and you can use of your remaining move and any extra attacks you're entitled to after the charge.

 

[CapnZapp]

5e's treatment of charge looks like another pendulum-swing away from the prior edition(s). Charge was too complicated/optimal, so take it away completely rather than try to fix it, then to forestall complaints that you 'can't charge,' add back a sub-optimal feat to let you do it if you really want to.

Sounds about right.

Only I don't think the weaksauce of the feat was necessarily intentional. To me its more likely it's simply a casualty of not getting enough attention (which otoh may be exactly for the reasons you describe).

 

[CapnZapp]

Everybody used the longest spears & biggest shields they could manage, too, which D&D also has an inexplicable prejudice against.

In cases like this, its easy to be caught up by reality, which is a poor fit for D&D. By this I mean simply that once you're off the very first level or two, you no longer die from a single solid hit, which was the point of the longspear - in real-life, hitting your foe before your foe hits you is extremely important, and often decisive.

In D&D, this aspect is almost completely absent. Having a longer reach means very little. So what if the goblin attacked you first and shaved 4 hp off your 27?

And not only that. D&D wants an active, heroic gameplay. To achieve that, offense is always given preference. You don't want a rule that encourages people to hide behind their shields and spear walls - you want rules that encourages true heroes to jump in the fray with abandon!

 

[CapnZapp]

That said, being able to charge and deliver your full wallop of attacks easily becomes too good, especially if the designers cave in to reality and hand out actual bonuses (to the charge).

On the other hand, charging and only being allowed a single attack is too weak (once you're above level 4).

The simplest solution was no solution at all, methinks.

 

[CapnZapp]

I think having no special charge mechanism in the game is actually fairly okay, given how easily such a general action could be abused.

That doesn't mean there is no design space for selected creatures to have a charge that is effective; in the case of player characters the Charger feat. It can certainly be upgrade without breaking anything.

 

[Yunru]

I have a great charger build at the moment. I charge towards the enemy and then take the attack action. What more is needed to represent charging?

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[Psikerlord#]

Familiar granting adv on attacks is OP. Esp with the owl or whatever which doesnt suffer OA's. Constant Adv on attacks is far too good, and anyone can get it via magic initiate feat. If the owl dies, so what, it's a ritual, just summon another one. And this is in addition to all the excellent scounting/sentry etc duty the familiar allows. Bad call.

 

[Leatherhead]

That said, being able to charge and deliver your full wallop of attacks easily becomes too good, especially if the designers cave in to reality and hand out actual bonuses (to the charge).

On the other hand, charging and only being allowed a single attack is too weak (once you're above level 4).

The simplest solution was no solution at all, methinks.

Having to move 10' in a strait line toward the target between every attack in order to get the charge bonus, and bonus action Dash is probably the Goldilocks zone you are looking for.

Trying to break away invokes Opportunity Attacks, and each character only has so much movement to work with per turn. A Fighter has 40' to work with in heavy armor (meaning they would need a perfect storm of combat setup), and anyone besides a Fighter is only getting two attacks. Maybe a Barbarian could sneak in three, but they are bonus action heavy as it is. A dual wielding Ranger would be next I think. But heck, you are dual wielding, which needs a bump in the late game anyway.

Therefore, you end up using it as it was probably intended: To get your character into the next melee engagement faster, with some bonus damage every now and again. With the nice side effect of being able to throw caution into the wind and become a bloody tornado of metal.

 

[Xeviat]

Is be down with some trade offs. 3e charge gave a -2 AC.


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[Flamestrike]

Familiar granting adv on attacks is OP. Esp with the owl or whatever which doesnt suffer OA's. Constant Adv on attacks is far too good, and anyone can get it via magic initiate feat. If the owl dies, so what, it's a ritual, just summon another one. And this is in addition to all the excellent scounting/sentry etc duty the familiar allows. Bad call.

The OWL has an AC of 12 and like 1 HP. Readied actions (and throwing/ ranged weapons) are a thing, and it takes 1 hour to get it back.

If your DM is time limiting his quests like a good DM should, its not an issue.

Also, any DM worth his salt is going to ask how that Owl is distracting the Dragon. Its not gonna work as consistently as you think.