Salamanders

[Sixten]

Last OD&D conversion for a while (I've got anniversary presents to work on ). These salamanders bear no relation to the 3E salamander (except being inspired by the same mythology).


Salamander, Flame

Large Outsider (Fire)
HD: 8d8+24 (60 hp)
Initiative: +1 (Dex)
Speed: 40 ft.
AC: 17 (-1 size, +1 Dex, +7 natural)
Attacks: 2 claws +11, bite +9 melee
Damage: Claw 1d4+4, bite 1d8+2
Face/Reach: 5 ft. by 10 ft. / 5 ft.
Special Qualities: Damage reduction 10/+1, fire subtype, fiery aura
Saves: Fort +9, Ref +7, Will +6
Abilities: Str 19, Dex 12, Con 16, Int 3, Wis 11, Cha 10
Skills: Balance +2, Climb +5, Hide +4, Jump +3, Spot +4
Feats: Multiattack, Power Attack
Climate/Terrain: Any warm land
Organization: Solitary or Cluster (1-3)
Challenge Rating: 4
Treasure: Standard, no copper coins
Alignment: Always neutral
Advancement: 11-15 (Large), 16-20 (Huge)

Flame salamanders and free-willed beings from the elemental plane of fire. They resemble large snakelike lizards, 12-16 feet long, with four legs and bright orange-yellow and orange-yellow scales.

They are the mortal enemies of frost salamanders, and will attack them on sight.

Fire Subtype (Ex): Fire immunity; double damage from cold except on a successful save.

Fiery Aura (Ex): Flame salamanders radiate such intense heat that all creatures within 20 ft. must succeed at a Fortitude save (DC 15) each round or take 1d6 points of fire damage. Treat this effect as an emanation.


Salamander, Frost

Large Outsider (Air, Cold)
HD: 10d8+30 (75 hp)
Initiative: +1 (Dex)
Speed: 40 ft.
AC: 17 (-1 size, +1 Dex, +7 natural)
Attacks: 4 claws +13, bite +11 melee
Damage: Claw 1d6+4, bite 2d6+2
Face/Reach: 5 ft. by 10 ft. / 5 ft.
Special Qualities: Cold subtype, damage reduction 10/+1, frigid aura
Saves: Fort +10, Ref +8, Will +7
Abilities: Str 19, Dex 12, Con 16, Int 3, Wis 11, Cha 10
Skills: Balance +3, Climb +8, Hide +4, Jump +5, Spot +2
Feats: Multiattack
Climate/Terrain: Any cold land
Organization: Solitary or Cluster (1-3)
Challenge Rating: 6
Treasure: Half standard
Alignment: Always neutral
Advancement: 11-15 (Large), 16-20 (Huge)

Frost salamanders and free-willed beings from the elemental plane of air. They resemble large snakelike lizards, 12-16 feet long, with six legs and white to blue-white scales.

They are the mortal enemies of flame salamanders, and will attack them on sight.

Combat
Frost salamanders prefer to attack by rearing up on their hindmost legs, and attacking with their other claws and bite simultaneously.

Cold Subtype (Ex): Cold immunity; double damage from fire except on a successful save.

Frigid Aura (Ex): Frost salamanders radiate such intense cold that all creatures within 20 ft. must succeed at a Fortitude save (DC 16) each round or take 1d6 points of cold damage. Treat this effect as an emanation.

Skills: When hiding in snow or ice, frost salamanders gain a +4 racial bonus to Hide checks.


EDIT: rephrased aura abilities slightly; fixed secondary damage

 

[pyrobob]

Hi! shouldnt the fire salamander only have 4 skill points? u forgot to add the int mod (-4). Fort should be 10, and zone of heat should probably be named fiery aura, as it resembles a magmin's fiery aura, and wotc likes to keep similar abilities named the same (your creature, your choice, just thought id say it ) As for frost salamander, it has way too many skill points (16!) by my calc, it should only have 4 again, unless im missing something... and is there a reason it doesnt have power attack, or at least a 2nd feat?
great monsters! i (we) really appreciate your submissions, as wel as all the hard work u do!

 

[Sixten]

shouldnt the fire salamander only have 4 skill points?

It should have 4 per HD (counting the Int mod) as should the frost. So they both have drastically fewer skills than they "should." But, honestly, I'm not sure what else I would give them.

Fort should be 10, and zone of heat should probably be named fiery aura, as it resembles a magmin's fiery aura

Doh! I should have guessed that there would be some creature with a similar ability that I missed. And it looks pretty much exactly like what I want, too. But by my calculations, the Fort save DC should be 15 for the flame salamander (base + Con modifier + EHD /2 = 10 + 3 + 2 = 15).

is there a reason [the frost salamander] doesnt have power attack, or at least a 2nd feat?

I couldn't think of an appropriate second feat for it, frankly. I gave the flame Power Attack because it doesn't deal nearly as much damage, but it seemed appropriate for a fire creature to be able to trade some of its (really high) attack bonus for extra damage.

 

[Devon]

(base + Con modifier + EHD /2 = 10 + 3 + 2 = 15)

Just to save you some heartache, saves should be based on half of the total HD, not EHD (which is HD modified by the creature's size).

As far as I know, EHD is only used to determine skills and/or feats, and doesn't affect other mechanics based on hit dice. It doesn't even affect how many ranks a creature can have in a given skill--just the number of total skill points available.

So, the save DC for any abilities which can be tied to the flame salamander's Con score should actually be 17.

So they both have drastically fewer skills than they "should." But, honestly, I'm not sure what else I would give them.

Here are the equations I have for an Outsider's starting skills and feats:

Skills: (8 + Int mod)xHD
Feats: 1 (+1/4 EHD)

So, an 8-HD flame salamander, as written, would have 32 skill ranks and 2 feats; the frost salamander would have 40 skill ranks and 3 feats.


I notice that these creatures don't have ranks in Listen, which should be one of the primary skills for a creature of the wild (even if it's the wilderness of the elemental planes).

Some other good skill rank sinks, as mentioned elsewhere on this board, would be Intuit Direction, Sense Motive, and Wilderness Lore.
Nevertheless, your max skill ranks (in "class skills", which are pretty much determined by the creature) are HD+3, so there's no reason not to put more ranks in the skills you do have detailed.

I couldn't think of an appropriate second feat for it

Some good "filler" feats include Improved Initiative, Toughness, Great Fortitude, and the like. Power attack can always be followed by Cleave.

Cheers,

- Devon

 

[pyrobob]

sorry, sixten, for my mistakes... i figured if i said it like i new what i was doin, it would be right... oh, well! im kinda new at this, so bear with me... i agree w/ devon on the feats. flip through the MM, and ull see about 150 improved init! ah, well, im corny

 

[Sixten]

Just to save you some heartache, saves should be based on half of the total HD, not EHD (which is HD modified by the creature's size).

Not according to the copy of that Dragon article that I have (top of p. 14).

So, an 8-HD flame salamander, as written, would have 32 skill ranks and 2 feats; the frost salamander would have 40 skill ranks and 3 feats.

Ah. Now that I look again, I see I've been miscalculating EHD a little (I've been going from the max for the size, not the min). So, yes, these numbers are right.

I'm still not sure that I want to give them all of the skill ranks that they're "entitled" to. I think I'm just having trouble because these critters don't seem all that smart or able, despite their high hit dice. But excellent suggestions on skills and feats to think about; I'll look over this stuff tomorrow.

 

[Sixten]

im kinda new at this, so bear with me...

So am I. No worries.

 

[Devon]

Not according to the copy of that Dragon article that I have (top of p. 14).

Wow, you're right. I was misinformed at the beginning of my creature creation days, but the article does in fact say "extra Hit Dice." Amazing -- I'd just read over it and missed that time and again. This punks up quite a few of my monster's save DCs.

Thank you,

- Devon

 

[Sixten]

This punks up quite a few of my monster's save DCs.

Well, if it makes you feel any better, so does the fact that I've been miscalculating EHD values for mine all this time.

Time for some serious QA.

 

[Grazzt]

Dragon has to be in error.

The MM and the DMG both say 10 + 1/2 HD + relevant ability modifier. Besides check the monsters in the MM and work them out. They come out to be 1/2 HD. not 1/2 EHD.

If it were 1/2 EHD, then the really big monsters would have for DC saves.


Take the Elder Fire Elemental. It has 24 HD, a burn DC of 26, and a Con of 18.

DC 10 + 12 (1/2 HD ) + 4 (Con mod [relevant ability mod]). = 26


Using 1/2 HD, it comes out wrong:

DC 10 + 10 (1/2 of its 20 EHD) + 4 (Con mod) = 24