Same Skill Training Twice?

[Tratyn Runewind]

Hi all,

So I'm thinking of making a wizard/sorcerer. Wizards get the Arcana skill, and can't retrain out of it. The sorcerer multi-class feat, Arcane Prodigy, gives training in the Arcana skill. But since the character already has it, can't retrain out of it, and explicitly can't get training in the same skill twice, is there some way for him to sub another skill for it? I had vague recollections of a rule that let you sub another skill for one that you would be trained twice in, but I can't seem to find it - perhaps my brain is confusing it with a rule from some older edition, or even from some other game. The character's only choice by the rules I can actually find seems to be the Judge Elihu Smails option - "You'll get nothing, and like it!" I suppose the same problem applies to cleric/avenger/invoker mixes (with Religion skill) and the druid/shaman blend (with Nature skill). Is there any rule to keep these multi-class combos from being hosed out of a skill training slot?

 

[fba827]

By the rules as written, you don't get any additional skill training by taking that Multiclass feat - you already have that skill training so it doesn't stack.

Anything else you've seen or are vaeguly remembering are houserules.

A common one I've seen pop up is.. if you already have training in it (and it's not possible to retrain out of it) then pretend that the Multiclass feat gives you Skill Focus for that skill.

Another one I've seen tossed around is 'let you pick another class skill'

And so on.

but, really, it's all about what your DM will allow since you will be stepping outside the rules as written for what you're asking about.

 

[Bolongo]

From "Ask Wizards":

Q:My warlock has the Sneak of Shadows multiclass feat but is already trained in Thievery; can I pick a different skill from the rogue class?
A: No. If you already have the skill you would gain by taking a multiclass feat, you do not gain a replacement benefit.

Or in other words: you're SOoL.


But in my game I houserule that you can just pick something else, I see no reason to hose players like that.

 

[Dalzig]

Is there any rule to keep these multi-class combos from being hosed out of a skill training slot?

Nope. You're hosed.

Now, maybe if you talk to your DM and explain the situation...

 

[Tratyn Runewind]

Thanks, folks!

Hi again,

Thanks for the answers, people! Alas, 'tis as I feared. But the multi-class feats are pretty crazy good anyway, so it's not such a big loss. I note that the Ask Wizards example Bolongo was nice enough to provide is just slightly different from the situation I asked about, since Thievery is not a required skill for Warlocks - they can retrain out of it before taking Sneak Of Shadows, though for another Warlock skill, rather than a Rogue one as that questioner seemed to want.

And I am the DM - creating NPCs. Just trying to stay consistent with the rules as written.

Thanks again, all!

 

[Doctor Proctor]

Well, since you're the DM I would just say decide on whatever you think is fair, and then let your players know about your houserule. Personally though, I feel that substituting a different skill is a little powerful, as you can use that as a backdoor way to pick up skills that would otherwise be harder to access for your class. For example, I don't believe that Wizards have Athletics in their class skill list, but Sorcerers do. Allowing them to sub Arcana for another skill in the Sorcerer's list gives them access to something they would normally have to pick as a skill training feat or multiclass Fighter to get.

So, I think the fairest thing is to generally just allow them to retrain their class skill, or if it's something like the Arcana issue I would just allow the second instance to be treated as Skill Focus: Arcana.

 

[Wolfwood2]

And I am the DM - creating NPCs. Just trying to stay consistent with the rules as written.

The rules as written say that NPCs don't have to obey the same rules as PCs. An NPC doesn't need nulticlass feats. You want to give him a wizard power, you just declare it so.

 

[Nightson]

I would houserule to say it upgrades to skill focus. That keeps it of the approximate power level.

 

[fba827]

The rules as written say that NPCs don't have to obey the same rules as PCs. An NPC doesn't need nulticlass feats. You want to give him a wizard power, you just declare it so.

This.

If you're making NPCs the rules are specifically different than those for PCs. Give the NPCs the feats and skills that you feel are appropriate - end of story.