Sample Character request: Warrior/Mage

[Sashi]

You guys are so focused on Fighter/Wizard, are you just ignoring Fighter/Warlock?

You get powers based on constitution for god's sake! And I'm pretty sure you could argue all but the most stringent DM's to allow a Longsword Pact Blade.

 

[jasin]

I posted a hammer-wielding Warlock whose basic attack (at 11th level) is the equivalent of an at-will Fighter power.

I haven't checked your math carefully, but how much did you need to invest in this?

What good is an awesome basic attack if your warlock powers are more awesome so you only use a basic attack in 2 out of 10 rounds in each fight? And they would've been more awesome still if you didn't spend feats on the basic attack, but on them.

Isn't this a bit like making a wizard with Whirlwind Attack in 3E. It's pretty impressive that a wizard can smack everyone around him with a quarterstaff, but he's better off casting disintegrate or cloudkill. And he could've been even better off is he had taken Spell Focus (transmutation) or Spell Focus (conjuration) rather than the WWA feats.

 

[neceros]

I haven't checked your math carefully, but how much did you need to invest in this?

What good is an awesome basic attack if your warlock powers are more awesome so you only use a basic attack in 2 out of 10 rounds in each fight? And they would've been more awesome still if you didn't spend feats on the basic attack, but on them.

Isn't this a bit like making a wizard with Whirlwind Attack in 3E. It's pretty impressive that a wizard can smack everyone around him with a quarterstaff, but he's better off casting disintegrate or cloudkill. And he could've been even better off is he had taken Spell Focus (transmutation) or Spell Focus (conjuration) rather than the WWA feats.

Are we talking Character Optimization, or having fun, here?

It's true that taking 6 feats to give you a +1 or +2 to your spells might make you that much more powerful in that one area, but there's nothing wrong with a wizard taking Toughness or Armor Proficiency. Martial wizards and warlocks are something to be afraid of. My Level 10 wizard has a +14 with her sword and only a +10 with spells - even though she's specialized in casting spells.

 

[jasin]

Are we talking Character Optimization, or having fun, here?

I do not want to have to choose.

It's true that taking 6 feats to give you a +1 or +2 to your spells might make you that much more powerful in that one area, but there's nothing wrong with a wizard taking Toughness or Armor Proficiency.

I agree, but IMO fighter/wizards are about swords and sorcery, not toughness and sorcery.

Which is why I'd mostly be satisfied with any warrior type with Ritual Caster.

Martial wizards and warlocks are something to be afraid of. My Level 10 wizard has a +14 with her sword and only a +10 with spells - even though she's specialized in casting spells.

But is her sword dealing 1[W] + Str while spells do 2d10 + Int and push 3 and knock prone?

But in any case, interesting. Can you provide more details please?

 

[neceros]

What would you like to know?

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

You guys are so focused on Fighter/Wizard, are you just ignoring Fighter/Warlock?

You get powers based on constitution for god's sake! And I'm pretty sure you could argue all but the most stringent DM's to allow a Longsword Pact Blade.

Exactly. There's more than one way to achieve a warrior/mage, I suspect. How about ranger/warlock -- would the strikery goodness of both classes synergize well? Or maybe a war2 (warlord/warlock)?

IMO, the warrior/mage concept is the true test of the multiclass system. If the MC system is done well, you shouldn't need a dedicated class to achieve the concept. It does look like the fighter-wizard characters posted to a pretty good job of it, but I'm interested in how they compare to other approaches.

 

[jasin]

What would you like to know?

How is your sword-wielding wizard built? How come she has +10 with spells and +14 with swords? Any multiclass powers that let her put the sword to better use than just making basic attacks?

 

[Gort]

Well, if the intelligence and strength attributes are the same on the character, the sword attack will be 3 higher than the spell attack, due to proficiency.

The way this balances is that a lot of creatures (armoured ones, mostly) have higher ACs than they do other defenses.

So it's not all that remarkable.

 

[Nifft]

I haven't checked your math carefully, but how much did you need to invest in this?

What good is an awesome basic attack if your warlock powers are more awesome so you only use a basic attack in 2 out of 10 rounds in each fight? And they would've been more awesome still if you didn't spend feats on the basic attack, but on them.

Warlocks are not Wizards. Warlocks get no at-will Close attack spells, and vanishingly few encounter Close attack spells. This means that usually, when a Warlock is forced into melee range, he's screwed.

This dude is not. He can stand back and act like a Warlock, or he can lay down smack with his hammer. This latter option is vital if someone else charges him first.

Here is the Dwarf build:

Fokkin Witchhammer
Str: 16
Con: 18 (16 +2)
Dex: 12
Int: 10
Wis: 12 (10 +2)
Cha: 10

Level 1: Infernal pact = Eldritch Blast + Hellish Rebuke. No choices there.
Encounter: Vampiric Embrace is a nice way to open a fight.
Daily: Armor of Agathys. For the rest of the encounter, all enemies who start adjacent to you take 1d6+Con cold damage (or 2d6+Con if you've Cursed them).
Feat: Chainmail Proficiency, so you can survive enemies starting adjacent to you.

Level 2: Toughness, so you're less squishy.
Utility power: Ethereal Stride or Fiendish Resilience. I prefer the teleportation, but it's your call.

Level 3: Fiery Bolt (encounter power).

Level 4: Con +1, Str +1; Dwarven Weapon Training (+2 damage with your warhammer).

Level 5: Depends if you want to pick up a Controller power (Hunger of Hadar) or a blaster power (Avernian Eruption). Both are good, but remember you already have a good use for your Minor action most rounds. Still, you can afford to remain in one spot, so you could put your Move action to decent use maintaining the necrotic darkness.

Level 6: Free feat. Powerful Charge? Fast Runner? Scale armor proficiency? Whatever you like.
Utility power: The first three are all good choices, but Shroud of Living Steel seems most fitting.

Level 7: Howl of Doom! Our first Close power. Yay!

Level 8: +1 Str (-> 18), +1 Con (-> 20); Free feat (see level 6).

Level 9: Iron Spike of Dis!

Level 10: Fighter multi-class feat (which is sadly useless in itself).
Utility power: Shielding Shades or Warlock's Leap. Both are good.

Level 11: Hammer Rhythm (deal Con damage on a miss).
Enter Iron Vanguard paragon path (heal Con damage when you drop a foe; interrupt to spend an Action Point to act if you are dropped to zero; Frontline Surge power). Retrain one of your Heroic feats into Twofold Curse.

Level 12: Dwarven Durability (+2 healing surges; surges give you +5 healing).
Utility power: Inexorable Shift (iron Vanguard encounter).

Later: Pact Blade + TWF + TWD; Scale proficiency -> Plate proficiency -> Armor Specialization (plate); and be sure to retrain Dwarven Weapon Training -> Weapon Focus (warhammer) before Epic tier.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Spenser]

Nifft -- I love that guy. I wouldn't have thought to go Warlock/Fighter as opposed to Fighter/Warlock.

At first, the one thing that bugged me about him was that he's going to be doing a lot of basic melee attacks -- but then again, everyone he strikes in melee is going to be cursed, so that's at least as good as any of the Fighter at-wills. Nice job!