Sanctum Spell - What's the purpose?

[Dannyalcatraz]

YaganaWcott
has no status.

Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 6
Novice (Lvl 1)

Reported

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

The only time I've ever seen Sanctum Spell used in a PC build, it was to cheese the "official" reading of arcane thesis to make it a -1 and reduce the costs of other metamagic feats applied to a spell.

I'd ban it, as I really don't like things that have no settings between worthless and broken, but the cheese required to use it is so stinky and obvious, I doubt I'll ever see anyone actually try to use it. If I did, hey...it makes for an awesome pre-play verification system. Tells me, "don't play with this person."

 

[Wyvernhand]

Dandu is correct on this one. An archmage doesn't stop being an archmage because he's cast all of his 7th+ level spells. He can still use Mastery of Shaping or Mastery of Elements or any of his other High Arcana abilities on his 6th and lower level spells. All that matters is that he has the potential to cast 7th level spells in a given state (after prepping spells). Similarly, a character who uses Sanctum Spell to grant themselves the ability to cast 3rd level spells (a Sanctum Spell cast in one's sanctum IS actually 1 level higher, just like Heighten Spell) can't cast 3rd level spells outside of his sanctum, but he could in a given state (in his santum). Its nearly identical. Saying that a caster loses the features of his PrC if he casts all of his spells is wrong. By extension, so is saying that a wizard who leaves his sanctum loses his PrCs. Just because he can't do X at that moment, doesn't mean he can't do X ever.

The other use is to lower spell levels to fit them under a cap. A weapon with Spellstoring is capped at 3rd level. You could store a Sanctum Enervation in one. Or a Sanctum Orb of Fire. You could make a Wand of Sanctum Cone of Cold, or Sanctum Feeblemind. If you were a War Weaver, you could use Sanctum Spell to put a 6th level spell in your Eldritch Tapestry. Etc.

 

[Michael Silverbane]

You do not lose the benefits of a prestige class if you lose the qualifications to get into it. The qualifications are required only to take the first level of the prestige class. The better solution is to disallow spell-level based shenanigans to count as prerequisites for such classes...

Unlike the basic classes, characters must meet Requirements before they can take their first level of a prestige class. The rules for level advancement apply to this system, meaning the first step of advancement is always choosing a class. If a character does not meet the Requirements for a prestige class before that first step, that character cannot take the first level of that prestige class.

The sanctum spell feat is typically best for NPCs (is excellent for villains, where you know the PCs are going to go breaking into their house to try to kill them). In some instances, a PC might engage in a large amount of 'defend the castle' type activities, in which case, sanctum spell could be of benefit.

 

[scott2978]

It depends a lot on the setting, but as a DM I'd never allow a PC to use a feat to qualify for a PrC like has been suggested here. Sounds too munchkin/powergamer to me.

But I can imagine a setting in a city or a castle where a lot of the action takes place in the PC's home turf. Admitadly that's pushing it though.

 

[Binho]

Dandu is correct on this one. An archmage doesn't stop being an archmage because he's cast all of his 7th+ level spells. He can still use Mastery of Shaping or Mastery of Elements or any of his other High Arcana abilities on his 6th and lower level spells. All that matters is that he has the potential to cast 7th level spells in a given state (after prepping spells). Similarly, a character who uses Sanctum Spell to grant themselves the ability to cast 3rd level spells (a Sanctum Spell cast in one's sanctum IS actually 1 level higher, just like Heighten Spell) can't cast 3rd level spells outside of his sanctum, but he could in a given state (in his santum). Its nearly identical. Saying that a caster loses the features of his PrC if he casts all of his spells is wrong. By extension, so is saying that a wizard who leaves his sanctum loses his PrCs. Just because he can't do X at that moment, doesn't mean he can't do X ever.

The other use is to lower spell levels to fit them under a cap. A weapon with Spellstoring is capped at 3rd level. You could store a Sanctum Enervation in one. Or a Sanctum Orb of Fire. You could make a Wand of Sanctum Cone of Cold, or Sanctum Feeblemind. If you were a War Weaver, you could use Sanctum Spell to put a 6th level spell in your Eldritch Tapestry. Etc.

Thats good! But, metamagic feats can be used with craft wand? How can we calculate the price?
I can think the spell sniper too.

You do not lose the benefits of a prestige class if you lose the qualifications to get into it. The qualifications are required only to take the first level of the prestige class. The better solution is to disallow spell-level based shenanigans to count as prerequisites for such classes...



The sanctum spell feat is typically best for NPCs (is excellent for villains, where you know the PCs are going to go breaking into their house to try to kill them). In some instances, a PC might engage in a large amount of 'defend the castle' type activities, in which case, sanctum spell could be of benefit.

Maybe Dandu is right. But I still think that it is a DM call.

For NPCs that help the players it is good too. Think about it, if you leave your sanctum and lost your prestige classes pre. You would be a lot weaker, maybe you can only cast that magic if you return to the sanctum. The players can escort the NPC back to his sanctum.

 

[Empath Negative]

Losing a qualifier costs you access to the prc. Thats word of god.

The sanctum ONLY grants access to the higher level spell in a specific area.. Therefore you would onky qualify for that prc in a specific area. Leave that area and you no linger qualify.

Simply being able to put on a ring of evasion at some point in your career does not qualify you for prcs that need evasion.

 

[Michael Silverbane]

Losing a qualifier costs you access to the prc. Thats word of god.

That is incorrect.

For one example of why that is, look at the Dragon Disciple prestige class. Its entry requirements include not having dragon as a type. Its capstone ability gives you the dragon type.

For an even better example, look at the Ur-priest prestige class. Its entry requirements include not having any divine spellcasting ability. At each level of the prestige class, you gain divine spellcasting ability.

 

[Wyvernhand]

Meeting Class Prereqs

It's possible for a character to take levels in a prestige class and later be in a position where the character no longer qualifies to be a member of the class. Alignment changes, levels lost because of character death, or the loss of a magic item that granted an important ability are examples of events that can make a character ineligible to advance farther in a prestige class.

If a character no longer meets the requirements for a prestige class, he or she loses the benefit of any class features or other special abilities granted by the class. The character retains Hid Dice gained from advancing in the class as well as any improvements to base attack bonus and base save bonuses that the class provided.

Straight from RAW.

Now, if a mage who used Sanctum Spell to qualify for his PrC did indeed lose access to his class abilities when he leaves his sanctum, then so would a wizard who cast all of his 3rd level or higher spells needed for Geometer, or a Mindbender who didn't prepare Charm Person on a given day. No. This is not true. The rules don't care if you are or aren't able to satisfy the prereqs at every instant. They only care that you have the potential to fill those prereqs. You have to be ABLE to perform the prereqs, even if you aren't performing them at this exact instant, or are unable to perform them any more times per day.

Imagine a Barbarian with a rage based PrC who "fell" because he used all of his rages per day? Or a Paladin with a PrC requiring smite who already smote his last smite?

Losing an item is different, since without the item, you no longer have the potential to do X. You no longer have the potential to evade fireballs without your Ring of Evasion, no mater what your saves are. If your Str was only 11, you couldn't use your Power Attack feat without Gauntlets of Ogre no matter how much BAB you had.

But spells, and other per/day resources, are much more fluid. They come and go. The rules don't care if you can do it now, just that you could do it. A mage in his sanctum could cast a spell of 1 level higher using Sanctum Spell, so he meets the prereqs. Period.

If you don't like it, and won't allow it, thats fine. I only allow it for entry into a few PrCs. You won't get into something like Initiate of the 7 Veils any earlier, but I would allow a Wiz2/Clr1 access into Mystic Theurge, which needs all the help it can get.

 

[Empirate]

Losing a qualifier costs you access to the prc. Thats word of god.

The sanctum ONLY grants access to the higher level spell in a specific area.. Therefore you would onky qualify for that prc in a specific area. Leave that area and you no linger qualify.

Simply being able to put on a ring of evasion at some point in your career does not qualify you for prcs that need evasion.

I don't agree. Being able to cast 3rd level spells in a specific area fulfills the prerequisite of being able to cast 3rd level spells at all. It's not as if you couldn't go back to your sanctum. Similarly, owning a Ring of Evasion does qualify you for prestige classes which list the Evasion ability as a prerequisite.
As Wyvernhand stated, the potential to fulfill a PrC's prerequisites with the resources that are available to you is what counts: having a sanctum, and the Sanctum Spell feat, is what is important in this case. You don't need to be standing within the sanctum every minute of every day.
Now if the sanctum were to be destroyed, one might rule that you lose access to your PrC goodies until you build a new one. But even that would be a rather dick move by the DM.