D&D General Sandbox and/or/vs Linear campaigns

[mamba]

Woah....so a more typical Sandbox does not have that much detail. Maybe the dm-player makes a map, but they sure are not making points of interest. Once the DM starts to create more then a small amount, the game slides down the slipper slope to being a Linear Game.

A more Sandbox game simply has a 'unknown cave' marked on it. And a player or two then say, and alter game reality, "there is a powerful magic sword in that cave we want", and the DM-player bows quickly to say "yes players".

to me you are conflating two different things. Dolmenwood is a sandbox, a map with 100 linear predetermined locations / dungeons is a sandbox.

The players saying ‘there is a cave beyond this forest and in it is a magical sword’ is something completely different

Whatever the players choose to do under the idea 'save the princess' becomes the game reality of saving the princess. The DM-player her has little or no power and simply makes what the players tell them to make and have the PCs save the princess.

if the players go to the nearest inn and drink ale all day, the princess is not saved, no matter whether they did so ‘under the idea of saving the princess’ or not

Not sure what to call the game you describe here, nonsense seems to come to mind…

 

[KYRON45]

So a collection of linear encounters is still a sandbox?

 

[mamba]

So a collection of linear encounters is still a sandbox?

If the sequence of encounters is up to the players and the consequences of the encounters are up to the players actions, then yes

 

[Laurefindel]

Linear
DM: step in for a rollercoaster ride

Sandbox
DM: entrance to the theme park right this way

 

[Bedrockgames]

So a collection of linear encounters is still a sandbox?

No. If we are talking 3E style CR/EL adventure structured around a series of planned encounters, then no, that is very unlikely to be in a sandbox. If you are just talking, the players went form point A to point B of their own free will and had a series of random encounters, sure, still a sandbox

 

[Swarmkeeper]

If the sequence of encounters is up to the players and the consequences of the encounters are up to the players actions, then yes

I would hope the bolded holds true regardless of sandbox or linear. Assuming a functional game, of course, since the opposite of the bolded is really just... "DM story time"... which is beyond the scope of this thread.

 

[Tonguez]

So a collection of linear encounters is still a sandbox?

Id say yes, the players choice is in where to go and how to engage, the DM provides preset opposition within their frame - the edges of the box as it were

 

[KYRON45]

I’m getting mixed signals here folks.

 

[mamba]

I would hope the bolded holds true regardless of sandbox or linear.

I agree, but there were some adventures where the BBEG could not die in an encounter because he still had a role to play after it, so at most he could ‘die offscreen’ and be presumed dead

 

[gban007]

For me to contrast what I feel is a sandbox campaign to one that isn't:

Shadow of a Dark Queen (ran through recently and we enjoyed it) - heading towards full on railroad, start off traveling to a village for given reasons, if cleric or arcane spellcsster in party have a couple of interludes with predetermined outcomes, then must go to village. Village will get threatened, unable to negotiate with the threat, must help village evacuate, then must go to Kalaman, must help Kalaman, must then miss big fight by army, then must go north, then back to kalaman, must face big bad guys and deal with big threat in a given way, while there are optional encounters, and optional paths at some points, a lot of it the party must go along with.
If playing sandbox, I would start maybe at beginning as a starting point. Characters may then choose to reject the clerical bit, deciding to ignore the gaslighting gods and forge some heretical path.
They may get to village and then when threat emerges, successfully negotiate with it, or decide to join it instead and help destroy the village. They may help evacuate, but decide to skip Kalaman, maybe they heard about Silvanestis plight and want to go there. Maybe they decide they want to try and go to a different continent to avoid the threat altogether (hopefully). Maybe they navigate tricky path to another continent, decide it is a silly place and decide to return home. Maybe they go to Silvanesti, find out what they have to do to save it and nope out, and decide to go help the Kender instead. Maybe the Kender send them to a dungeon to retrieve an artifact. Maybe they get to first part of dungeon and decide that would be good place to set up home in, ignoring the artifact. Maybe they take the artifact for themselves and go elsewhere, etc. I would have mix of prepared stuff and improv to bring forward depending on what they do, but they are going where their whim takes them, and for any given part may opt to never reach goal D, as changed tack before it.