D&D General Sandbox Campaigns should have a Default Action.

[Reynard]

Im sorry for being harsh about this, and i dont think your a terrible person nor is what your describing is terrible, its more the idea that Railroads=Linear adventures, is actively terrible and bad for all discourse on topics like this, because it leads to a fundemental misunderstanding of why railroads are bad, because they actively force players to do something they do not want to do, which is actively just bad and toxic, this confusion has lead you to use outright poor definitions that muddy the waters on a level that isnt good, and has caused very bad trains of thoughts that "linear adventures are bad" or "all linear adventures are railroads" that is actively toxic are all discussion on this matter, because of this fundamental misunderstand, And i simply will push back again it in all forms to the absolute extreme.

Let's compromise and use "rollercoaster" instead: it's a railroad with consent!

 

[Mannahnin]

Being hung up on terminology this way, to the point that you are telling people they are wrong about their own experiences, is the thing that is problematic. You are so focused on your personal definition of and revulsion for railroads that you can't fathom someone using the term in a non-negative light. I think it would better serve discussion to acknowledge that other people are using the term differently, and move on, rather than doubling down and calling other people "extremely terrible."

Eh. I'm kind of on board, though. Railroad is a negative term. I get that some players use it in a non-negative sense, and I'm not going to freak out over that, but I don't think it's an accurate usage.

Linear is a non-pejorative term for this kind of adventure (or rollercoaster, if you like). Railroad as a distinct term has meaning, an adventure or approach in which the DM actively stymies player choice and agency. That story @GMforPowergamers just related about the seagoing campaign was a railroad, and that's something distinct from a mere linear adventure, which players can enjoy simply riding along for.

 

[FallenRX]

Let's compromise and use "rollercoaster" instead: it's a railroad with consent!

thats fine

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Again, that is something he wanted to do, and actively didnt wish to do anything else, that is not a railroad, notice every time i say this, is when it is forced to do something they do not wish to do, or have no interest in, that is the fine line difference here that is fundamentally misunderstood.

he did not agree to the contest of champions anymore then the rest of us. He did not choose that or the armor, or the weapon... he would have been just as happy with the king just hiring us, or us just anything else. he got on the railroad and that was it.

to put it in my perspective you are basically saying "He wants do be forced to do something, he doesn't wanna do?" You see how abject nonsensical that is?

except nothing about a railroad requires him not to want it... because again some people WANT to ride the rails

 

[GMforPowergamers]

That story @GMforPowergamers just related about the seagoing campaign was a railroad, and that's something distinct from a mere linear adventure, which players can enjoy simply riding along for.

yes... when you get told what your character does, when the ending of the fight (weather you win or lose) is decided by the DM before the session starts that is a railroad....

 

[Maxperson]

Some do. I have GMed some. Often it is when they wan tto experience a story. It is a totally valid way to play RPGs. It's the tabletop equivalent of the Uncharted games.

Yeah. I always use the example of one of my players. He wanted to both give me a break because I was burning out a bit and try his hand at DMing. He got an adventure path and then during session zero said, "Guys, this is my first time DMing and I wanted to ask if you guys would just stick to the module. I know you can handle it well when we go flying out to some other city to try and find something out(talking to me), but I'm not confident that I can do that and it's going to be all that I can handle right now just to do this." Or something close to that. We of course understood and agreed to stick to that storyline and not deviate.

The question becomes, is that really a railroad if we agree to it? I've since come to believe no. It's just a linear adventure or maybe not linear, but it has confines that we agreed to as players. That's different that the DM removing our agency(choice) in some manner and just making sure we stayed in those bounds for his own reasons.

 

[Maxperson]

I am looking forward to the explanation as to how these things are completely unalike, as opposed to a mild variation in tone and/or consent.

I don't view the bolded part as mild. If I haven't consented, it's a betrayal of my trust and the game to railroad me. I view railroading as universally bad, where linear or agreeing to confines is not railroading.

 

[Reynard]

I don't view the bolded part as mild. If I haven't consented, it's a betrayal of my trust and the game to railroad me. I view railroading as universally bad, where linear or agreeing to confines is not railroading.

I am fine with reserving "railroad" as bad if we use "rollercoaster" as positive. I don't think "linear" quite does it, though. That is its own thing. But -- terminology: it can be a pain.

 

[payn]

I am fine with reserving "railroad" as bad if we use "rollercoaster" as positive. I don't think "linear" quite does it, though. That is its own thing. But -- terminology: it can be a pain.

Im totally good with linear as the good, and railroad as the bad. Most folks are actually.

 

[Maxperson]

I am fine with reserving "railroad" as bad if we use "rollercoaster" as positive. I don't think "linear" quite does it, though. That is its own thing. But -- terminology: it can be a pain.

Rollercoasters are linear. I don't think either does it, because the confines agreed to might not be linear. If say you agree to stay inside the confines of Adventure Land instead of all of Disneyland, that would be part of this sort of agreement, but it's not linear/railroad, because you can pick and choose which rides to go on and when within those confines.