D&D 4E Sandbox game: should I 4e?

[erisred]

Ah, sadly, no. I somehow got the impression it was going to be run online. Sorry to trouble you.

I was *hoping* that the game mentioned was going to run online as well. Assuming WyzardWhately is serious about wanting to play, then I can say that any DM that would like to run a sandbox similar to the Western Marches online could count on at least *TWO* people interested...I'd *jump* at a chance to play!

Anyone willing to volunteer to DM?

 

[Derren]

Prove it.

Proving a negative? Nice idea.
But the lack of those entries from the previews and how often it was said that the focus of the stats is combat only there is a strong indication that this is correct.

You have totally missed the point of what a sandbox game is.

The point of a sandbox game is that every time the PCs do something other than fight the DM has to pause the game because the pre made monsters and NPCs don't have any informations about how they can react to that and he has to check is huge list of houserules to make sure the game stays consistent? Good to know.

 

[D'karr]

Proving a negative? Nice idea.
But the lack of those entries from the previews and how often it was said that the focus of the stats is combat only there is a strong indication that this is correct.

Yes, the previews. So your information about how much 4e will suck is completely derived from incomplete previews. Nice idea.

The point of a sandbox game is that every time the PCs do something other than fight the DM has to pause the game because the pre made monsters and NPCs don't have any informations about how they can react to that and he has to check is huge list of houserules to make sure the game stays consistent? Good to know.

You obviously flubbed your perception roll. No matter how much you exaggerate the flaws of the previews they still do not add up to your assumptions. And since you can't prove it, it seems senseless to continue to post. Doesn't it?

 

[Derren]

Yes, the previews. So your information about how much 4e will suck is completely derived from incomplete previews. Nice idea.

When the previews a bad, how high is the chance that the actual product is in reality totally different (=good)? Especially as WotC likely considers the part it uses as previews the best things about 4E.

You obviously flubbed your perception roll. No matter how much you exaggerate the flaws of the previews they still do not add up to your assumptions. And since you can't prove it, it seems senseless to continue to post. Doesn't it?

Which has nothing to do with the issue. Without out of combat information (including skills) it is much harder to create sandbox games. And all things we have seen and been told so far it looks like 4E won't have them written out.

 

[D'karr]

When the previews a bad, how high is the chance that the actual product is in reality totally different (=good)? Especially as WotC likely considers the part it uses as previews the best things about 4E.

Which has nothing to do with the issue. Without out of combat information (including skills) it is much harder to create sandbox games. And all things we have seen and been told so far it looks like 4E won't have them written out.

Once again you are wrong, as skills are derived directly from Ability Modifier + 1/2 level. Even if they are not written out, how hard was that? Obviously not as hard as you want everyone to believe.

 

[D'karr]

When the previews a bad

I forgot to mention, your opinion is just that. Just because you want to state it as a fact does not make it so.

 

[ZappoHisbane]

When you have a DM who can't run monsters effectively/interestingly and even divides areas according to levels like in a PC game its no wonder that you get the impressions that the 3E rules are bad. I suggest you play a bit under DMs who can think out of the box and take the abilities the PCs have into account.

I don't the idea is basing areas around levels per se, but instead building a world 'ecology'. Naturally some areas are going to end up being more dangerous than others. As a extremely over-simplified example, as a low-level character I'd rather be in the wilderness of the American Heartlands than in the Savannahs of Africa. The apex predators of wolves and pumas seem a lot less scary than hyenas and lions. In a sandbox game I could *choose* to go to the Savannah if I wanted, but I'm probably shortening my character's lifespan by doing so.

Oblivion really *isn't* a great example of this type of gaming as it automatically scales by level. It's impossible to find a Troll or Spriggan wandering in the wilderness while you're first level, but once you hit 10th level it seems you can't shoot an arrow in a random direction without hitting one.

 

[small pumpkin man]

Should I wait for 4e? My main question is if 4e is going to be dangerous enough. 1st level 3.5e characters are fragile, so there's a lot of fear riding off into the unknown sandbox. 1st level 4e characters are pretty dang tough... although when you do nearly have a TPK, it's terrifying. I can't decide. On the one hand, the familiarity of 3.5e, plus the fear at low levels. On the other, I heard that preparing adventures is *way* easier in 4e, and for a sandbox game, that's awesome.

About the the toughness thing. Due to the lowered scaling, while PC will be less scared of the Dragon, (since with luck they can beat it, and if unlucky they can probably run away), but large numbers of lesser creatures are much scarier. Two basic town guards or even trained Kobolds can take down a single 1st level PC, the fear is still there, it's just from a different source.

It should also be pointed out that if you're willing to "reconceptualize" these NPCs as higher level minions when the PCs level up enough, if you keep their power level the same, this makes them 9th level, meaning large groups of Kobolds, or Town Guards can be scary (in large, yet believable numbers) long past when they would be utterly a waste of time in 3.x.

 

[small pumpkin man]

Oblivion really *isn't* a great example of this type of gaming as it automatically scales by level. It's impossible to find a Troll or Spriggan wandering in the wilderness while you're first level, but once you hit 10th level it seems you can't shoot an arrow in a random direction without hitting one.

Yes, a better example would be every Elder Scrolls game except Oblivion. Problem is most people don't seem to have played those.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

I find it incredibly funny that Darren is telling Keterys to try playing under a DM who can think out of the box. Keterys (a DM) can CLEARLY think out of the box (I don't know him - I base this on his posts.) While Darren seems to me to be incredibly narrow-minded (although creative, I'll admit, when it comes to creating problems that aren't there.)

Kudos to Keterys for not taking Darren's bait.

Fitz.