D&D 5E Sanitizing Curse of Strahd (+)

[Burnside]

I did not insulted anyone. I did not even implied what you are saying. Reread my posts.

And my solution is still the same. Keep to the castle, this would be the best solution short of denaturing the adventure itself.

You stated that you didn’t need to change the adventure because your players are “mature adults, so...” directly implying that OP’s players were not.

You stated that the Vistani might need to be changed if the players have “sensitivity problems.” Which implies that the “problem” is on the part of the players, even though the adventure authors themselves have admitted that the portrayal of Vistani in the adventure is a problem.

You are posting in this thread for your own satisfaction and literally nobody else’s. OP specifically said they don’t need an explanation for why they are “wrong” to change the adventure- they just need suggestions for changing it.

 

[Helldritch]

You stated that you didn’t need to change the adventure because your players are “mature adults, so...” directly implying that OP’s players were not.

You stated that the Vistani might need to be changed if the players have “sensitivity problems.” Which implies that the “problem” is on the part of the players, even though the adventure authors themselves have admitted that the portrayal of Vistani in the adventure is a problem.

You are posting in this thread for your own satisfaction and literally nobody else’s. OP specifically said they don’t need an explanation for why they are “wrong” to change the adventure- they just need suggestions for changing it.

1) Saying that my players are mature adults does not imply that the OP players are not. That is your assumption not mine.

2) For the Vistani, read again. I never played them as mono race and I gave examples on how I have always played them. So here my advice is in line with the wishes of the OP. So again, stop reading with what you wish was written to feel righteous but what is actually written in the posts.

3) I am perfectly aware of what the OP wrote. What I offered are two perfectly valid solutions. Do not play the adventure or keep yourself to the castle itself as in the original adventure. You assume a lot of negative from unwritten words.

If my solutions are not to your liking. Feel free to put me on ignore. You are very fast to jump to bad conclusions.

 

[Helldritch]

What is the solution with Dusk Elves? I know that Strahd killed all the females. Some other things to know about?

One of the surviving elf wants to bring back hia sister to life to start the race anew... That is incest and I did not explore that line (not that I would have backed down, it just did not come up in any of the two campaigns I ran).

This one is simple to change, make it so that the woman is not his sister but she never loved him ( a fact, as she was in love with Strahd, or more precisely, the power that Strahd represent). This would pretty much settle the matter in my book and would not change the tone of the adventure.

 

[Guest 6801328]

That is why I said to keep the adventure to the castle itself. And no, I am not nuts. Keep your insults to yourself. You can disagree but stay polite please.

Sorry you took it personally, but I was commenting on an opinion you expressed not you. Fair game.

Whenver possible, you should always try to keep the adventure as close as possible to the intent of the authors.

Why? We're not talking literature here. There have been many adventures over the years about which there's a general consensus that they are just awful.

Furthermore, tweaking the details we are talking about is hardly changing the intent of the authors. I would describe the "intent" as:
- The hags are evil
- They are doing something creepy and disturbing

Yes you will modify a few bits here and there to better your group. But how many pages does this rewritting will involve?

I think not many. But even so, none of your objections seem to be about how much work is involved, but about "respect" for the adventure, the authors, and the players. If the DM wants to do some work, that's up to them.

Of course the original did not have these elements. It was what 50 pages long? This new itteration is in line with the box set we had in the 90's. Grotesque, grim and dark. Everything that a gothic horror genre had to have. I see this adventure as much an homage to the I5 adventure as it is to the world of Ravenloft and the domains of dread. A lot was added in the box set and the other supplements. Quite a lot.

And for the last paragraph of your answer. Nope, you can but you will not retain a sliver of the original horror of the adventure. It will be something else entirely. That is why I would keep only the castle if I had such issues. Or not play it at all.

Yup, and the above assertion is also nutty. There are countless creepy, unsettling themes to work with. Keeping that atmosphere does not require misogyny and murdering (and cooking!) children.

Edit:" And I never said that I liked child muredering. That is quite an accusation you make there."

Huh? I didn't say you did, either. Re-read it?

 

[Gradine]

@Helldritch, I appreciate your point of view, but not your advice, and especially not your veiled insults regarding me and my friends' "sensitivity problems" or relative maturity. I can understand if insult was not intended, but it was nevertheless insulting, and that is on you.

The (+) in the thread title is there for a reason, the reason being I do not want this thread to degenerate over what content is or is not offensive in CoS. CoS is, overall, a fantastic adventure with a particularly solid skeleton. I feel that wanting to make changes to a published adventure to better suit me and my friends' sensibilities, and asking for advice from like-minded players, is a completely reasonable request, and one that you have seemingly only objected to because of the nature of those sensibilities. I'm neither interested nor willing to respond to such objections.

I am declaring now as the OP that such arguments are to be considered off-topic for the purpose of this thread. The (+) assumes that if you are posting in this thread you agree with the premise of it. You not only do not, but have insulted me and my friends for stating them.

Further off-topic posts will warrant getting a moderator's attention. Let this be the last post in the thread discussing objections to premise of this thread.

Now, there are other great comments in this thread that I'd love to catch up to, especially for the folks of the Abbey. Along with the Dusk Elves this has been my biggest sticking point.

 

[Guest 6801328]

One of the surviving elf wants to bring back hia sister to life to start the race anew... That is incest and I did not explore that line (not that I would have backed down, it just did not come up in any of the two campaigns I ran).

That's illuminating. It would never have occurred to me to view selective editing, to improve the story in the eyes of the table, as "backing down" from something.

EDIT: Sorry, @Gradine. You posted while I was typing. I'll drop it.

 

[MNblockhead]

And once again, a very specific request for ideas on how to modify an adventure to better suit the tastes and sensibilities of the OP's group descends into a debate over the appropriateness of the request. The next stage is usually debating over the "(+)" convention and whether it should be enforceable, and whether it is necessary when the forum platform has an ignore feature.

Anyway, as a big fan of CoS, but without taking personally the desire for others to want to alter it to fit their games, I think many of the suggestions above are good. If I were asked to run a more "sanitized" version, some things I would think of:

* Bonegrinder: the hags ensorcell the children, making them act as the pushers of their dream pastries, which are both highly addictive and weaken the addicts defenses to the hags feeding on their dreams. That children are helping the hags spread addiction to the adult population so that the hags can steal their souls seems plenty dark enough without killing the children. If using addiction as a plot device in this way is objectionable, perhaps it just slowly poisons them. Or maybe the dream pastries are not particularly dangerous items and the hags are more using the children as spies and cheap labor.

* Dusk elves. I would say that Strahd either killed all women or that all the elves were transformed into men. Or that they were all made infertile. Personally, I like the darker story that all women were killed. The elves keep living because they fear dying and their souls being stuck in this demi-plane. They keep living because they have hope of Strahd being defeated and they can then achieve transcendence and go to Arvandor upon their deaths. Or perhaps they have a secret they have kept from Strahd, if Strahd dies and his power is lifted from Barovia, a large portion of them will be blessed of Correllon and be able to switch their genders per Modenkainen's Tome of Foes.

* Vistani. I don't have much to add here. There are many good ideas in this thread. Another option is just to make them a group of bandits who have been given special dispensation by Strahd. I find that a bit bland though.

 

[Guest 6801328]

* Bonegrinder: the hags ensorcell the children, making them act as the pushers of their dream pastries, which are both highly addictive and weaken the addicts defenses to the hags feeding on their dreams. That children are helping the hags spread addiction to the adult population so that the hags can steal their souls seems plenty dark enough without killing the children. If using addiction as a plot device in this way is objectionable, perhaps it just slowly poisons them. Or maybe the dream pastries are not particularly dangerous items and the hags are more using the children as spies and cheap labor.

How about: the hags keep the children in a magical sleep, and capture their dreams to bake into the cookies? Then choose how dark you want the resolution
- The children wake up and go home to their parents
- The children wake up but are strange and fey and only want to return to their dreams
- The children wake up but are evil
- It requires a Restoration spell...per child...to restore them
- They remain permanently asleep (until Barovia curse is lifted?)
- Etc.

 

[Helldritch]

1) Sorry you took it personally, but I was commenting on an opinion you expressed not you. Fair game.


2) Why? We're not talking literature here. There have been many adventures over the years about which there's a general consensus that they are just awful.

3) Furthermore, tweaking the details we are talking about is hardly changing the intent of the authors. I would describe the "intent" as:
- The hags are evil
- They are doing something creepy and disturbing



3b) I think not many. But even so, none of your objections seem to be about how much work is involved, but about "respect" for the adventure, the authors, and the players. If the DM wants to do some work, that's up to them.



4) Yup, and the above assertion is also nutty. There are countless creepy, unsettling themes to work with. Keeping that atmosphere does not require misogyny and murdering (and cooking!) children.



5) Huh? I didn't say you did, either. Re-read it?

1) Thank you.
2) I am an advocate of the change the least possible to suite your players. At some point, it becomes a completely different adventure. Yes, some adventures we were offered were, not very good. But adding stuff to make better is very different from removing. One tries to keep the intent. The other changes it completely. The OP is pretty clear that he wants to play CoS.

3) Yep. Agreed. And at a certain point, it is no longer the same adventure.
3b) Again, agreed on the amount of work a DM is willing to do. But I am giving my view on the subject. What is too far for me might not be enough for someone else and vice versa.

4) But these themes are integrated in the adventure and in the plotline. Changing it too much removes a lot of the macabre and grotesque. I personnaly do not see anything else satisfactory to replace this theme tjat would have the same disturbing impact that this theme has. Mass murder? Already there. Torture? There too. Rape? Not the tone of this adventure and I would not go there either.
What would you change it with?

5) I beg forgiveness. Reread and I made mistake. Sorry.

 

[Scribe]

I think just focusing on the castle is an option that should be entertained. Further reading on these encounters and the thread here has changed my view on some of this other stuff.

Its a horror setting, and I'm not a fan of horror, but I think everyone is going to have their own 'this is too much' line.