Savage species experiences

[thullgrim]

So I am in the beginning of derveloping a new homebre world. I was wondering what peoples experiences are using Savage Species to enable monsters as characters. I am thinking along the lines of natural lycanthropes, lizardfolk and a few others. If I use monster classes instead of straight ECL adjustments then they are playable from the get go rather than available as only NPC or replacement characters at higher level. I am just wondering what peoples experiences are with something like this before I allow this. Positive of negative post em all.

Thullgrim

 

[Phoenix]

So I am in the beginning of derveloping a new homebre world. I was wondering what peoples experiences are using Savage Species to enable monsters as characters. I am thinking along the lines of natural lycanthropes, lizardfolk and a few others. If I use monster classes instead of straight ECL adjustments then they are playable from the get go rather than available as only NPC or replacement characters at higher level. I am just wondering what peoples experiences are with something like this before I allow this. Positive of negative post em all.

Thullgrim

I'd have to say that many of the things that I found in the book simply added to the hundreds of other options available to me in other suppliments. There are some very good things in there to use for one-off NPCs, but for PCs or world-populating I would say that it would easily turn the game into a "How do peasants survive in this world?" scenario.

 

[Umbran]

There are some very good things in there to use for one-off NPCs, but for PCs or world-populating I would say that it would easily turn the game into a "How do peasants survive in this world?" scenario.

I can see that problem croppingup if you use it for "world-populating". However, I don't see how this becomes a problem using the book for PCs. The existance of one PC following such a mechanic in no way implies a great number of such characters in the world. PCs can be unique or rare individuals, rather than one of a horde of such critters.

 

[Derulbaskul]

Savage Species = good, balanced, fun.

I really like it. Two Oathbound campaigns based on the material and the players and I really thought it provided a fairly balanced ruleset that was still fun.

 

[hong]

I think one thing that's been noticed is that races with really large ECL modifiers can be hard to handle. The problem is that a monster PC with a large ECL mod is going to have significantly fewer HD and hit points and worse saves than everyone else. This makes it hard to keep them alive, even if they have special abilities out the wazoo. The system works fine for ECLs of +2 or +3, but starts to break down at about +5, and +10 is just out there. You can't just reduce the ECL either, because that allows the monster PC to dominate encounters early on -- exactly what ECLs are meant to avoid.

Mind you, a campaign featuring PCs with ECLs of +10 is going to be pretty weird anyway....

 

[diaglo]

try playing the Reverse Dungeon adventure or the Dungeon Keeper Computer games first. to get in the mood or understand the monster PCs motivations.

or maybe read Grunts

or The Glass Prison

the real problem is having a Monster PC wander into town.

 

[lacunae]

I played in a multi-planar Savage Species campaign, based on the Nameless Legion scenario from Dungeon magazine. We found the book to be full of holes, unbalanced, frustrating, broken -- and terrific fun!

A few suggestions:

1. Make sure the players consider their race/monster choice very carefully from the get-go; the party's Werewolf-Pixie-Rogue didn't quite turn out the way the player wanted...take note of the SINGLE HIT DIE until 6th level as I recall...

2. Don't let anyone play a Ghaele or Astral Deva...Chain Lightning at level 6 just aint right...

3. Consider drastically limiting the stat-point buy of characters if you use that system; we used 32 (admittedly high-powered) - but this turned my Djinn into an insane killing machine (Str 22, Dex 20, Con 18, Int 18, Wis 14 or thereabouts) at around level 5 or 6. Add to this Invisibility AT WILL, Whirlwind (which simulates an 8th? level spell), perfect Flight, Large Size, Plane Shift AT WILL (hint: touch someone, shift to the elemental plane of Air, drop them, shift back - or, for that matter, the elemental demi-plane of ACID, to which Djinns have immunity), etc, etc - and you have a seriously broken character.

4. Consider limiting the stacking of templates. Another player made the most horrific thing I've ever seen constructed; a Feral Insectile Half-Ogre Psonic Warrior or something...only around ECL 6, and it had 20ft reach with a halberd and a climb speed - just picture it sitting on the cieling with a Large-sized Halberd...scary!

There are many more holes to look out for...but as I said - a tremendously fun game can be had with this book.

Good Luck!

 

[Painfully]

The party has to have some reasonable consistancy IMO. Having one monsterous PC is manageable, but an entire party of them hard to make into a believable group.

I enjoyed using the templates and sample creatures in the back of the book the most. It really increased the the usefulness of the book for me. The book has much more value for DM's than players.

 

[Thresher]

Its not a bad attempt by Wotc to make these 'critters' playable but sadly the whole HD-ECL-CL is by far and large, the possibly most stupidly misunderstood thing in gaming since 'THAC0' to explain.

There is a way to fix ECL to make player characters 'less' of being a paper tiger but Im keeping that one close to my heart until its playtested, and then I'll be unleashing it on the masses.

As always, a GM should keep a close eye on whatever crawls out of those pages and into a game.

 

[I'm A Banana]

So far, so good.

The problem mostly being, as others have pointed out, the 'paper tiger' effect...even uber-muscled monsters won't have the hp to actually be a threat to most enemies. You can kick butt for a turn or two, but then you drop like a rock. And the 'easiest' way to fix this from the ground up is to re-design monsters to be more in line with characters.