Savage Worlds - Hit Point System?

[Wik]

Okay, first off, I think it's kind of funny that ENWorld has "rules systems" for RIFTS, Spycraft, and BESM, and not for Savage Worlds. But whatever.

Second, does anyone know of a rules variant that replaces the RAW damage system in Savage Worlds with a hit point version? I ask because my group likes Savage Worlds, but hates the damage system, and I'm inclined to agree with them. A hit point based system would be a great help.

I was thinking of running a few sessions soon, to cure some of the "4e blues" I've been suffering lately.

Thanks in advance!

 

[pjrake]

I was thinking the same thing! Wil check the boards over at SW but I'm interested in a HP system too.

-PJ

 

[nerfherder]

I'm pretty sure I've seen one posted on either rpg.net or the SW boards. A quick search should find it.

 

[MortonStromgal]

Look at Cortex, its very much like a house ruled Savage Worlds and I believe it uses hit points. Should be easy to adapt.

 

[Corathon]

I also find the Savage Worlds damage rules to be unsatisfying. I'd be interested in seeing a variant, but I'm not sure that my GM would share that interest.

 

[Greg K]

I, actually, like the damage system.

Shaken includes those impacts that knock you off balance or out of position, distract you with momentary pain (e.g., a slap across the face or to the groin), etc., but do no lasting or serious damage.

And, I like the Incapacitation table.

Is the problem incapacitation results and lethality? If so, you are supposed to adjust incapacitation based on the lethality of your setting. This has been done in several third party supplements and PEG's free Crime City (in which incapacitation was made even more lethal). To help GMs, Clint Black, the Brand Manager, posted dials for adjusting lethality from Cartoony to very Gritty over at the PEG forum. I can provide a link if anyone wants to check it out.

 

[beldar1215]

I, actually, like the damage system.

Shaken includes those impacts that knock you off balance or out of position, distract you with momentary pain (e.g., a slap across the face or to the groin), etc., but do no lasting or serious damage.

And, I like the Incapacitation table.

Is the problem incapacitation results and lethality? If so, you are supposed to adjust incapacitation based on the lethality of your setting. This has been done in several third party supplements and PEG's free Crime City (in which incapacitation was made even more lethal). To help GMs, Clint Black, the Brand Manager, posted dials for adjusting lethality from Cartoony to very Gritty over at the PEG forum. I can provide a link if anyone wants to check it out.

I have to agree. The damage system is one of the things that drew me to the system. I love not having to count and track HP.

Beldar

 

[Corathon]

De gustibus and all that. It just bothers me that my character could shoot a high toughness character and hit him time after time without doing any lasting damage to him. E.g. most pistols are 2d6+1 IIRC, and if the character has Toughness 12 (possible with the right edges) I'd need to ace to even shake him.

The default incapacitation table is very lethal, and I think that incapacitated characters who aren't killed outright tend to die way too quickly. One doesn't usually bleed to death in 5 seconds.

What kills characters iME is going from unhurt to Incapacitated in one high damage roll. Then, with wound penalties, the roll to not be dead on the incapacitation table is very difficult.

 

[Wik]

What kills characters iME is going from unhurt to Incapacitated in one high damage roll. Then, with wound penalties, the roll to not be dead on the incapacitation table is very difficult.

This was one of the problems we've faced. It works with NPCs fine, but with PCs, it can get kind of annoying to get shaken every round, have to make a check to lose your shaken status, and then not take actions. And then, suddenly, BANG! You're dead.

It kind of sucks to have to save your bennies for damage soak rolls, instead of using them for stunts, which is how the game usually goes for us. Every single player in the group that's played it, as well as myself (the GM) agree that the game would be near perfect for us were it not for the damage system.

We also hate the healing system in the game, as it becomes very difficult to have wounds that really feel like "wounds".

I was thinking of the Cortex System, which is another system I really like, but the damage system there isn't much better in my experience. While I could transplant the damage system in Cortex over to Savage Worlds, I have a feeling they wouldn't mesh very well - Cortex rules don't have exploding dice, whereas that's one of the big draws to Savage Worlds. But I think the Cortex system might be a good starting point, at least - worth checking out.

The other one I'm looking at is Earthdawn's damage system. As the game uses exploding dice, and in fact has a resolution system somewhat similar to Cortex with the addition of exploding dice, it could work. As with any damage system that uses exploding dice, it suffers from the "you're fine, now you're dead" problem, but probably not to the degree that Savage Worlds has it. Plus, the Earthdawn wound system is a pretty tight, elegant little mechanic.

 

[Wik]

Is the problem incapacitation results and lethality? If so, you are supposed to adjust incapacitation based on the lethality of your setting.

It's not just lethality and incapacitation, although that is part of it. A big part has to do with the "shaken" condition, and how that can often lead to missed turns. Another big part has to do with how players look at their character sheets - if they're at 50% hit points, they might be a bit more careful than they'd be at 100%. You don't have that health gauge in Savage Worlds, which some people call a blessing - my players don't necessarily like that.

The Death Spiral effect in Savage Worlds is also a huge turnoff, to the point where I have two players who refuse to play in games with Death Spirals, for fairly legitimate reasons that I won't fault them for. (Personally, I like death spirals, but the one in Savage Worlds is pretty brutal).

In short, my players grew up with HP, and prefer HP over everything else. I can't really fault them for it.