Save DCs and extra HD

[hong]

Hm, the Germans are out in force again....


Hong "not mentioning the war" Ooi

 

[Caliban]

Well, the formula would certainly apply if you just gave it more creature HD, but I'm talking about class levels here. IIRC Savage Species said something about how class levels don't count, but I could be wrong.

I remember something like that as well. I think it's mentioned in a few specific templates.

It makes sense that purely physical abilities (such as poison DC's) would be based solely on racial HD and not class levels.

 

[Knight Otu]

Refresh my memory, people. If I have a critter with supernatural abilities (save DC = 10 + 1/2HD + ability mod), and I give it class levels, do the save DCs increase?

No. Check the advanced monsters with class levels, such as the Aboleth Mage and the Hound Archon Hero in the MM or the SRD. The save DCs for their abilities only change when the appropriate ability score changes. Hit Dice only change the DC when they are racial, or when the ability states that they also count Class Hit Dice.

And, quite counter-intuitive, templates that add their abilities based on Hit Dice do count Class Hit Dice, as evidenced by the Celestial Charger Unicorn.

 

[andargor]

Hm, the Germans are out in force again....

Hong "not mentioning the war" Ooi

Hong "as diplomatic as can be" Ooi...

Andargor

 

[Knight Otu]

I remember something like that as well. I think it's mentioned in a few specific templates.

I think I found it. SRD, Monsters Intro - A. Should be in the MM intro, too.

Special Attacks and Special Qualities

Many creatures have unusual abilities. A monster entry breaks these abilities into special attacks and special qualities. The latter category includes defenses, vulnerabilities, and other special abilities that are not modes of attack. A special ability is either extraordinary (Ex), spell-like (Sp), or supernatural (Su). Additional information (when needed) is provided in the creature’s descriptive text.

When a special ability allows a saving throw, the kind of save and the save DC is noted in the descriptive text. Most saving throws against special abilities have DCs calculated as follows: 10 + 1/2 the attacker’s racial Hit Dice + the relevant ability modifier.

[font=&quot]The save DC is given in the creature’s description along with the ability on which the DC is based.[/font]

 

[Caliban]

I think I found it. SRD, Monsters Intro - A. Should be in the MM intro, too.

Hmm... Some inconsistent text in the MM.

Page 6 of the MM has that text, but when you look them up in the glossary it's not worded the same.

Poison on page 313 specifically uses (10+1/2 racial HD + Con modifier).

Special Abilities on page 315 says that for Spell-like abilities it's (10+spell level+Cha modifer) and for Supernatural abilities it's (10+1/2 HD + Cha modifier).

It doesn't mention Racial HD for the supernatural abilities in the glossary.

The sample vampire on page 251 uses it's class HD for the Dominate (Su) ability, but this could be specific to the template (it says "use vampired HD" when calculating the DC's and there are no racial vampire HD).

The Mummy Lord (10th level cleric mummy) on page 190 does not use the cleric levels to adjust the Despair (Su) save DC, just the increased charisma.

The Curse of Lycanthropy (Su) does not change based on HD or Cha, it's just a flat DC.

It seems that the default rule for Supernatural abilities is to use only the racial HD, but this does not usually apply to supernatural abilities gained from templates.