Save My Game - Wilderlands & Dragons

[KidSnide]

Dungeons & Dragons Roleplaying Game Official Home Page - Article (Wilderlands & Dragons)

Stephen Radney-MacFarland provides what looks like a convenient and practical framework for basic wilderness adventures. It looks like a solid article, but it leads to an obvious question:

Why wasn't this written in 2008?

I realize that a wilderness is not a dungeon, but - last time I checked my expert set - wilderness adventuring was a core scenario for D&D.

-KS

 

[Aegeri]

I hate to drag in an argument from the various Vampire threads - but I am going to love pointing out the general advice officially from wizards about wilderness journey's being something that drains surges. In particular, a complete failure on the hazard advice given in the article is brutal. Losing surges on individual failed rolls (and taking damage equal to surges) and losing a whopping 2d6 surges on a failed hazard challenge across the entire group. All taking damage = surge value (which I actually fundamentally disagree with - but anyway) for each surge lost.

In any event I really disagree with taking damage equal to your surge value on hazards. I much prefer taking damage equal to your level. It's far less punishing on lower level characters - let's face it being on 0 surges in the first place is a massive punishment to begin with - and it is kind of absurd to me. The reason why is because characters with bonuses to their surge value are suddenly penalized - big time. The big tough con primary cavalier or the dragonborn in the party will actually die *faster* than the weedy Vryloka wizard. The irony in that should be well appreciated.

Other than that I highly agree with the article and I quite liked it. Travel shouldn't just be ignored because it's not as easy to emphasize as linear strings of encounters in a dungeon.

 

[Kingreaper]

I hate to drag in an argument from the various Vampire threads - but I am going to love pointing out the general advice officially from wizards about wilderness journey's being something that drains surges. In particular, a complete failure on the hazard advice given in the article is brutal. Losing surges on individual failed rolls (and taking damage equal to surges) and losing a whopping 2d6 surges on a failed hazard challenge across the entire group. All taking damage = surge value (which I actually fundamentally disagree with - but anyway) for each surge lost.

I always treat "damage=surge value" as "damage=quarter of hitpoints"

Because the surge boosters being bad is very silly.

 

[Aegeri]

Hey! I just realized that in a highly perverse and strange way this sort of thing turns the Vryloka's racial "penalty" into a bonus! You just need an entirely sadistic DM who drains all your surges with travel encounters constantly!

 

[kaomera]

Why wasn't this written in 2008?

I think mostly because nobody wrote it. This is a good article, and I'd like to see more like it, but ISTR a fair amount of complaint about the "DM advice" content of DMG2 when it came out (admittedly along with some of what I felt was well-deserved praise). I think WotC could profit from passing out a lot more advice on playing 4e, both for DMs and for players (epic tier?), but it can be a hard sell. Ideally they'd find a place to put it where it wouldn't offend those that don't want it (like, say, a "Save My Game" column in the DDI...).

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

huh? If a fighter and a wizard both lose 2 surges who's worse off? It ain't the fighter...

 

[RangerWickett]

I feel like a simpler solution to all this would have been to say, "You don't regain healing surges from an extended rest unless you're in a secure location and have sufficient supplies. Making your camp in the wilderness into a secure location (and foraging for supplies, if you don't have any) is a hard Nature check each day. If no PC succeeds, each PC loses a healing surge from the fatigue of traveling a day."

 

[Aegeri]

huh? If a fighter and a wizard both lose 2 surges who's worse off? It ain't the fighter...

Actually that's not the case in these scenarios - because a dragonborn fighter even with a decent con who isn't trained in endurance can be REALLY terrible (exceptionally terrible) in endurance skill challenges. Those armor check penalties can really add up, while the staff of defense wizard with con primary can be amazingly better off in the same scenario. So when it comes to something like this, the fighter can have his surges chewed up and if he got hammered in a previous encounter (sometimes happen) and they both end up on 0 surges, each loss deals damage = surge value.

In that context, the hilarious thing is that the dragonborn fighter (who gets a bonus to his surge value remember) will die a lot faster than the wizard will - simply because he has a higher surge value. It's incredibly rare that this would ever happen or that the fighter would get through over 10 surges before the wizards 6 or whatever it is, but it is a very strange quirk in the way the rules work. This is why I prefer damage = level instead of damage = surge value. It's less punishing and again as I said above, if you end up on 0 surges you are being more than punished enough.

I feel like a simpler solution to all this would have been to say, "You don't regain healing surges from an extended rest unless you're in a secure location and have sufficient supplies. Making your camp in the wilderness into a secure location (and foraging for supplies, if you don't have any) is a hard Nature check each day. If no PC succeeds, each PC loses a healing surge from the fatigue of traveling a day."

Delightful! In my game Dark Prophecy, I made resting in town give a +1 bonus surge, resting in the wilderness restores it normally (assuming the PCs can pass a nature check) and resting in "Cold" regions actually costs a surge (that can't be restored until they rest in town).

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Actually that's not the case in these scenarios - because a dragonborn fighter even with a decent con who isn't trained in endurance can be REALLY terrible (exceptionally terrible) in endurance skill challenges. Those armor check penalties can really add up, while the staff of defense wizard with con primary can be amazingly better off in the same scenario. So when it comes to something like this, the fighter can have his surges chewed up and if he got hammered in a previous encounter (sometimes happen) and they both end up on 0 surges, each loss deals damage = surge value.

In that context, the hilarious thing is that the dragonborn fighter (who gets a bonus to his surge value remember) will die a lot faster than the wizard will - simply because he has a higher surge value. It's incredibly rare that this would ever happen or that the fighter would get through over 10 surges before the wizards 6 or whatever it is, but it is a very strange quirk in the way the rules work. This is why I prefer damage = level instead of damage = surge value. It's less punishing and again as I said above, if you end up on 0 surges you are being more than punished enough.
Delightful! In my game Dark Prophecy, I made resting in town give a +1 bonus surge, resting in the wilderness restores it normally (assuming the PCs can pass a nature check) and resting in "Cold" regions actually costs a surge (that can't be restored until they rest in town).

I didn't see anywhere where he said 'surge value damage', he talked about taking damage of 1 surge or 2d6 surges for the whole party. Maybe I missed something hidden somewhere but the concept looked to me like it was all pure surges, not hit points.

Making camp, etc, yes. I'd make creating a secure base a skill challenge. It can be quite difficult, nigh impossible. Favorable circumstances (good sheltered location, food nearby, water available, etc) can either add automatic successes or reduce the DC of certain checks. Success gets you a base you can use. Have it take at least a day when the party doesn't move. If they fail then they have to try again or press on the next day.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

The right amount to lose is: half your bloodied value...