Save that ends the effect

[Dragonblade]

Be careful with tweaking the Save rules. When monsters hit you with multiple status effects, the combat can get very frustrating and deadly for the PCs very quickly if you make it harder to save. At lower levels you won't notice so much, but at higher levels it will make a difference.

Three harpies and two ogres TPKed a high level party of 6 PCs I played in due to the status effects of being immobilized and dazed that the harpy powers kept inflicting on the party. Even if you made your save one round, you likely got hit again by one of the harpies the next round. And since saves come at the end of the round, you basically end up helpless while the ogres pounded on you round after round.

The DM apologized later saying he totally underestimated how powerful the encounter was even though it was set up to be appropriate for our level.

 

[Solvarn]

The saving throw of 4E serves a different mechanic than in 3E.

The 4E saving throw is used to determine the length of time that an effect lasts. It is also used to keep a player engaged each turn by having something to roll.

Should you make power durations longer for monsters or PC's?

No, because if you implement an equal increase (monster vs. PC) PCs will spend more time statused than design accounts for. Doesn't sound fun.

 

[Solvarn]

At the end of most abilities that have an additional effect such as on going damage. The current rule is roll a d20, a 10 or better ends the effect at the end of the round. What would be the impact of making this number higher for both the player and the NPCs. Im thinking of making it better than 15 which changes it from a 45% failure to 75% failure. The reason for this is my group has the ability to pull natural 20s out of nowhere when ever they need them. They can do this on anyones dice and its in front of me as well.

Also, in my experience, players lie more than numbers do.

 

[hawkwing2k5]

To those of you who gave honest comments thank you

However
1. Im insulted that some of you accuse/ trash me because I dont know my game group or that they cant roll d20 out of their ass.
Uh its my group, uh I said Ive watch them.
Conclusion you would like to be a butt head for the heck of it or can not read.

2. Um again its my group and yes they can roll saves crits or any other group required rolls hell Ive had a player roll 150 on 2 dice using the l5r rules. The odds are??

3. again it was a thoughts question a what do you think of the impact of x on y.
I got good feedback from some of you, however Im missing why the need for cheap shots and smart ass comments.

This is quickly becoming the norm on this site....save that crap the WotC boards

 

[James McMurray]

3. again it was a thoughts question a what do you think of the impact of x on y.
I got good feedback from some of you, however Im missing why the need for cheap shots and smart ass comments.

Whether its cheating or unbelievably phenomenal luck is immaterial. If they roll twenties whenever they need them, a house rule that does anything but make it so that 20s don't succeed will be useless.

I recommend the solution someone else gave of making saves pass on a 1 - 11 and fail on a 12 - 20. you get the same statistical odds but 20s no longer matter.

 

[ExploderWizard]

Assuming that this "group luck" your players enjoy is really luck (and I will take your word that you are actually experiencing it) then the absolute value of the die roll doesn't matter.

For example if you changed the save range to 1-11 succeeds your group would roll a bunch of 1's when they needed them, because of collective luck.

The effect of making the save range narrower would therefore only impact the rolls you make for the monsters in a negative way and give status effects dealt by PC's a HUGE power up.

Keeping things as they are gives the NPC's an even break and doesn't impact the player's rolls at all.

 

[James McMurray]

Perhaps you could add aftereffects to the monsters' powers. That way even if they roll a 20 every turn they're still suffereing some secondary effects for a while.

 

[hawkwing2k5]

Thanks for the advice I may give a go I am really greatful for the ideas.


Can A MOD please close this thread

 

[Mahali]

Uh its my group, uh I said Ive watch them.
Conclusion you would like to be a butt head for the heck of it or can not read.

Just wanted to point out their being skeptical, and with reason. If you what you say is true it's not random chance and changing the rule to a higher save will not solve our problem.

The reasons we are skeptical are two fold. Confirmation Bias and knowing how bad human memory is. The same reason people say "He bent the spoon/key/fork/rod without ever touching it!" When in fact if you watch it on tape they had their hands all over it.

To learn more Home - James Randi Educational Foundation for the James Randi Education Foundation.

 

[Danceofmasks]

Well, having a bit of skill at sleight-of-hand, I sometimes notice cheating.
It's sometimes very subtle, but frankly, I despise it with a passion ... 'cos it's an insult to anyone who likes to play (and/or win) fairly.
To the point that in Heroes of Rokugan: Champions of the Sapphire Throne (the Legends of the 5 Rings version of a living campaign), I've attempted to PK a character just for being a dice cheat.
And I made it very public - while the duel was taking place, that my opponent's dice rolling is watched by another player as well as the GM.
That player is now banned.