Saves vs area affect spells: Clarification needed

[Leopold]

ok my dm is basically balking at the concept of a 5ft space around you being able to get out of a fireball or lightning bolt. I tried the matrix approach and he wants verbatium from either the SRD or DMG or something. i KNOW that i can escape from a fireball if I need to make a reflex save but WHERE does it say this?

 

[dvvega]

It says you can escape it under Evasion and Improved Evasion.

Any time you must make a reflext save they work. That's the simple answer. That's the PHB rules.

The DMG doesn't correct this except by suggesting (in the variant rules) that you might want to change the ability or use modifiers.

 

[Lela]

Okay, for exactly where they are . . .

Let's see, very last paragraph on page 39 and going through page 40 (in the PHB) is Evasion. Look lower on page 40 for the Improved version. That is for Monks.

For Rogues, both are on page 48. Evasion is at the top, in bold, Improved is lower down in the special abilities section, in italics.

How's that? They say basiclly the same thing as the SRD does.

A brief description of what a Reflex saving throw is would be found on page 120 (PHB). Also take a look at the top of page 133. Note the astrix and the description under the table as well as the entire paragraph under the table. These should help as well.

 

[Gromm]

ok my dm is basically balking at the concept of a 5ft space around you being able to get out of a fireball or lightning bolt. I tried the matrix approach and he wants verbatium from either the SRD or DMG or something. i KNOW that i can escape from a fireball if I need to make a reflex save but WHERE does it say this?

Then remind him that none of his big creatures could possibly avoid any area effects (dragons, etc). Since they aren't nimble enough to move.

Christ the only way to "escape" a fireball is to move out of its area of effect. Does he make you move 10-20' after a reflex save?

Its a game. The only time you don't get a reflex save is when you can't move at all (held, Ko'd, etc). It only comes up really when you're out for the count and a fireball lands on you and kills you, at least in my experience. Apologies to Trayer the Monk.

 

[Leopold]

ahh thank you! next time we encounter a big creature and he says this that we get no save it does as well..seeing as most of his critters are larger than us i can see it apply. Great logic!

 

[Artoomis]

Look again at the quote kreynolds kindly provided for you. You get a reflex save unless you are in a completely restrictive space.

How's that for rules-based? Seems pretty clear to me. Ask your DM if there is a part of "completely restrictive" that he does not understand. Than ask him if standing in a 5-foot square sounds "completely restrictive." If not (and how could it?), then you've won your argmument - you are not in a "completely restrictive space" so you get the save. End of rules argument.

The large creature thing is a great common-sense argument, too.