Saving the Bard

[aramis erak]

This is a thread about "saving the bard" - where what is meant is not the D&D bard, let alone the 5e D&D bard, but rather the bard archetype. It has been pointed out that the bard archetype predates D&D and is not dependent on D&D.

And the Archetyical Bard pre-D&D was different than the post D&D one. Or should I say, Bard Archetypes, plural

• The wandering chanter of the Druidic Histories. no magic.
• The rare reference to magic via musical prayers
• The poet of the 17th C English use... Poets and playwrights...
• The 16th-17th C Scots derogatory for a low-competence wandering musician.
• Tolkien's Bard the Bowman - total left-field to the rest. Probably be a Ranger in D&D terms.

No one of these fits the D&D Bard, even though the article introducing them mentions several.

 

[GMMichael]

Bilbo Baggins can easily be thought of as a bard - knowledgeable, personable, negotiates truces, outwits spiders, tricksy and riddling.

And he went on an adventure.

And he was a gifted (?) orator (see 111th birthday), but more importantly, a writer. One who transmits knowledge. This means that a bard... is one of the most celebrated characters of all time!

Too bad he didn't carry a lyre.

And the Archetyical Bard pre-D&D was different than the post D&D one. Or should I say, Bard Archetypes, plural

• The wandering chanter of the Druidic Histories. no magic.
• The rare reference to magic via musical prayers
• The poet of the 17th C English use... Poets and playwrights...
• The 16th-17th C Scots derogatory for a low-competence wandering musician.
• Tolkien's Bard the Bowman - total left-field to the rest. Probably be a Ranger in D&D terms.

Some types of priests do a lot of singing/chanting (prior to D&D). That does a bit to reinforce the magical (and historical) power of music, if not the bard archetype.

 

[Tony Vargas]

The wandering chanter of the Druidic Histories. no magic.

The Irish-Celtic Bards were reputed to have something like magic, in that singing the praises of or satirizing a person or place was tantamount to blessing or cursing.

 

[DrunkonDuty]

I can accept Bilbo as a version of a bard. Not musical, but that's not necessary, he does fill several other parts of the role.

So, not a bard. Dammit, I thought I was helping the cause! He seems like more of a Factotum (Dungeonscape - great book).

And did these bards help during adventures? Or would they make for better NPCs?

I'd say your character would be a troubadour version of a bard. Not a classic Celtic bard, no. More based on a much later archetype, the mediaeval musical trickster and hell raiser, a Caravaggio who uses music instead of painting. It's an archetype that certainly informs the modern gaming concept of a bard.

As for bards going on adventures - there's the Taliesin cycle from Celtic myth. He is by definition the protagonist. So yeah, there's a (very strong) precedent for the bard being a PC. Not that we need a precedent, these are our stories after all.

 

[Arnwolf666]

As an Irishman I would kind of like the bard to be a Druidic order kind of like it was historically. But a skald archetype would be great for a fighter.
Maybe a separate minstrel archetype for the rogue.

 

[Salthorae]

As an Irishman I would kind of like the bard to be a Druidic order kind of like it was historically. But a skald archetype would be great for a fighter.
Maybe a separate minstrel archetype for the rogue.

IC fluff-wise that’s easy!

Give some druids the entertainer Background

Or some Bards an Acolyte/Outlander combo Background.

Throw together a Druidic order that is a mix of those classes plus some Nature domain clerics and Rangers with the Acolyte Background and BOOM

new Druid circle!

if you mean as a subclass... yeah, that’d be cool too

 

[Arnwolf666]

As an Irishman I would kind of like the bard to be a Druidic order kind of like it was historically. But a skald archetype would be great for a fighter.

IC fluff-wise that’s easy!

Give some druids the entertainer Background

Or some Bards an Acolyte/Outlander combo Background.

Throw together a Druidic order that is a mix of those classes plus some Nature domain clerics and Rangers with the Acolyte Background and BOOM

new Druid circle!

if you mean as a subclass... yeah, that’d be cool too

one of the flaws for me in the bard class is them being primarily and entertainer where (imho only because modern gaming changer the expectation) bards should be more focused on lore than entertainment. Entertaining is a fine teaching method to pass on the lore. But they should be portrayed as preserving the history of their people (my opinion only as modernity has changed the expectation for fun purposes). And I find it annoying that the primary role of a Druid seems to be shapeshifter. But I have learned to sit back and let players enjoy themselves on that one. Rarely do I see a Druid really get into Druidism unless it is as a ecohippy. It’s generally they want to be a shapechanger. I almost wish they would just rename it the shapechanger class and be done with it.

 

[Salthorae]

one of the flaws for me in the bard class is them being primarily and entertainer where (imho only because modern gaming changer the expectation) bards should be more focused on lore than entertainment. Entertaining is a fine teaching method to pass on the lore. But they should be portrayed as preserving the history of their people (my opinion only as modernity has changed the expectation for fun purposes). And I find it annoying that the primary role of a Druid seems to be shapeshifter. But I have learned to sit back and let players enjoy themselves on that one. Rarely do I see a Druid really get into Druidism unless it is as a ecohippy. It’s generally they want to be a shapechanger. I almost wish they would just rename it the shapechanger class and be done with it.

I mean, the D&D Bard is far more based off of The Bard, Shakespeare and that era of theater and entertainment than they are tied to anything else.

whatever their origins, and this is the first I’m hearing of a Druidic connection (not saying it’s not there, just I’ve never heard of it), they are a catch all class for both the Shakespeare era entertainers as well as the lore/teacher trope of like a Homer with their oral Epics and such.

 

[GMMichael]

Or some Bards an Acolyte/Outlander combo Background.

These have potential for coolness. The acolyte-bard is the guy in the dark, ceremonial robe who plays a recorder between the passages of the head priest. Maybe the recorder helps the congress see fantastic visions. Or maybe the acolyte also has a nasty stiletto under his robe, just in case.

I'm a fan of the outlander-bard. Yeah, she sings and plays some odd, foreign instrument, but she's weathered and tough - because traveling for a living isn't safe or easy.

one of the flaws for me in the bard class is them being primarily and entertainer where (imho only because modern gaming changer the expectation) bards should be more focused on lore than entertainment. Entertaining is a fine teaching method to pass on the lore. But they should be portrayed as preserving the history of their people (my opinion only as modernity has changed the expectation for fun purposes). And I find it annoying that the primary role of a Druid seems to be shapeshifter. But I have learned to sit back and let players enjoy themselves on that one. Rarely do I see a Druid really get into Druidism unless it is as a ecohippy. It’s generally they want to be a shapechanger. I almost wish they would just rename it the shapechanger class and be done with it.

A knowledge-carring bard could possibly be more practical - especially for adventuring parties that can't afford to hire a sage (and keep him alive). But I think there should still be room for the rock-star bard: the hero who contributes to adventures by being famously awesome. Sort of like having John Lennon in your party. Undead. Anyway, the knowledge bard makes sense if the other members of the party have poor/no educations (which ought to be the norm, but isn't). After all, wasn't it Confucius who said "knowing is half the battle?"

Off-topic:
Shape-shifting Druids is weird. But, you know, the marketers said that they were getting a good, high-dollar response, so it snowballed. According to Etymology Online, "druid" means "they who know the oak." So, you know, I guess that means they turn into grizzly bears every once in a while.

 

[Arnwolf666]

I mean, the D&D Bard is far more based off of The Bard, Shakespeare and that era of theater and entertainment than they are tied to anything else.

whatever their origins, and this is the first I’m hearing of a Druidic connection (not saying it’s not there, just I’ve never heard of it), they are a catch all class for both the Shakespeare era entertainers as well as the lore/teacher trope of like a Homer with their oral Epics and such.

Yeah. But that’s just because minstrel’s stole the name bard to make themselves sound cool. The Celtic bard is much more suited to adventuring. The English were killing them after all because they were trying to preserve their culture and heritage.