Saving throws-always fail on 1?

[Asmo]

Our group is 3.0. We have never played with this rule. Maybe we should. I don´t know. I cant find anything about it in phb ( I´m not sure about the dmg, though), so where does this rule come from, is it 3.5, or is it a house rule that´s commonly accepted?


Asmo

 

[Herpes Cineplex]

Hm. I could've sworn I read it somewhere, but now that you've mentioned it, I can't find anything in the core books that specifically says it. So either I'm just imagining that I read it, or I read it in a different d20 book, or it's hidden really well.

But hey, in the chapter on magic in the PH, there's a paragraph about items surviving after a saving throw which says specifically that unless the spell description says differently, the only time a magic item might not survive a magical attack is when the character rolls a natural 1 (and then one, and only one, randomly determined item will have to make its own saving throw or be damaged). So there's at least one documented reason why even characters with ridiculous saving throws should be dreading a bad roll.

But if this turns out to just be a house rule, I think it's one I'll stick with anyway. I've seen enough happiness around the gaming table from the sight of a nigh-unbeatable opponent critically failing a saving throw or from a desperate and outgunned PC rolling a natural 20 to think that it's worth keeping.

--
so in our games, at least, it's adding something worthwhile
ryan

 

[Darklone]

It's not a houserule, it's in the 3.5 PHB under "Saving throws", page 130 or something. I checked it yesterday.

In 3.0 IIRC it was an optional rule.

 

[Thanee]

Faq

In 3.0 it's in the FAQ.

2nd item under Miscellaneous.

Bye
Thanee

 

[dcollins]

It is not in any of the 3.0 rulebooks or errata.
It was added in the 3.0 FAQ.

 

[thundershot]

I don't use the auto-hit and auto-miss anymore. If someone rolls a 20, it's considered a 30 + modifiers, and if they roll a 1, it's -10. It's worked out pretty well so far...



Chris

 

[Thanee]

I don't use the auto-hit and auto-miss anymore. If someone rolls a 20, it's considered a 30 + modifiers, and if they roll a 1, it's -10. It's worked out pretty well so far...

Does that actually make a difference in practice?

Bye
Thanee

 

[andargor]

We use the following variant from the ELH:

VARIANT: OPEN-ENDED ROLLS

By the time characters reach epic levels, the natural 1/natural 20 automatic failure/automatic success rule can often lead to frustrating results. The Dungeon Master’s Guide presents one option that can help alleviate this situation (a natural 1 is treated as a roll of –10 and a natural 20 becomes a roll of 30), but this just delays the problem. Eventually, even a –10 will hit anything and a 30 can’t land a hit.
The open-ended roll presents another option. Whenever you roll a natural 1 for a check—be it an attack roll, a saving throw, a skill check, or even an ability check—roll again and subtract 20 from the new result. Thus, if an epic-level fighter swung his sword at a frost giant and rolled a natural 1, he would instead roll a second time and subtract 20 from the second roll to determine his result. If you roll another natural 1 on the second roll, roll again and subtract 40, and so on, subtracting 20 each consecutive time a natural 1 is rolled.
On the other end, any time you roll a natural 20, roll again and add 20 to the new result. Thus, if the same frost giant were exposed to a meteor swarm from an epic-level wizard and rolled a natural 20 on his Reflex saving throw, he would roll again and add 20 to the new result. As with the natural 1, if a consecutive natural 20 is rolled on the second roll, you would roll a third time and add +40 to the result, and so on.
Note that an attack roll of a natural 20 still threatens a critical hit as normal, and the confirmation roll is made separately from any additional rolls made to determine the outcome of the initial attack.
Since this variant reduces the likelihood of creatures getting an automatic success or failure, it generally favors the PCs (as does any element that reduces random chance in the game).

We have found it add spice to the game, because an automatic skill check is no longer automatic (e.g. Tumble or Casting Defensively). Saves do not automatically fail on a 1, if your bonuses are good enough.

At lower levels, it doesn't make much of a difference, but at higher levels it makes things more interesting. Even a high-level character can screw up, but at least with this, it's not a flat 5% of the time.

Andargor

 

[James McMurray]

We used to use the open ended rules in my epic game, but we dropped them. It just became more dice rolling that had to be done. Sure, if you didn't have your skill maxed you would fail if you rolled a one, but if you did hve it maxed, you would usually still succeed. And with attack rolls, a twenty didn't always hit, but a 1 still almost always missed.

 

[andargor]

We used to use the open ended rules in my epic game, but we dropped them. It just became more dice rolling that had to be done. Sure, if you didn't have your skill maxed you would fail if you rolled a one, but if you did hve it maxed, you would usually still succeed. And with attack rolls, a twenty didn't always hit, but a 1 still almost always missed.

What bugged us is the fact that skill checks don't automatically fail on a 1. So, the Monk mostly ignored threatened areas and stopped putting skill points in Tumble, the casters would always cast defensively, etc.

Not anymore

Andargor