saving throws while helpless?

[krupintupple]

really quick question: if for whatever reason i'm helpless, does this affect my saving throws in any way, asides from the obvious of -5 to reflex since my dex is effectively 0?

like, if i'm helpless, do i automatically fail all saves, or do i take a penality or something?

thanks!

 

[irdeggman]

No you do not automatically fail saving throws of any kind when helpless - you may not get the benefit (as in Dex Mod for Reflex saves) but you still get to make one and a natural 20 still saves.

 

[Runestar]

Just remember that evasion does not work when you are helpless.

 

[frankthedm]

really quick question: if for whatever reason i'm
Ask your DM about reflex save issue. Wotc may want helpless characters to get Reflex saves, but not everyone agrees with that idea.helpless, does this affect my saving throws in any way, asides from the obvious of -5 to reflex since my dex is effectively 0?

like, if i'm helpless, do i automatically fail all saves, or do i take a penalty or something?

thanks!

Your Fort Saves are unmodified. Your Will save bonus stays the same, buuuut if you are unconscious, you are treated as 'willing' for magic effects that require willing targets. If an enemy caster casts "Charm person" on you while you are K.O., you get a save as normal. But if he grabs you you while you are K.O. and casts Teleport, you are going with and there is nothing you get to say about it. Also while unconscious you might lose the option to elect to role saves Vs. Harmless effects, but that is a really negligible issue.

Some spells restrict you to willing targets only. Declaring yourself as a willing target is something that can be done at any time (even if you’re flat-footed or it isn’t your turn). Unconscious creatures are automatically considered willing, but a character who is conscious but immobile or helpless (such as one who is bound, cowering, grappling, paralyzed, pinned, or stunned) is not automatically willing.

Just remember the orcish proverb "The unconscious are always willing".

Ask your DM about reflex save issue. Wotc may want helpless characters to get Reflex saves, but not everyone agrees with that idea.

Reflex Saves
These saves test your ability to dodge area attacks. Apply your Dexterity modifier to your Reflex saving throws.

Evasion And Improved Evasion
...As with a Reflex save for any creature, a character must have room to move in order to evade. A bound character or one squeezing through an area cannot use evasion.

As with a Reflex save for any creature, evasion is a reflexive ability. The character need not know that the attack is coming to use evasion.

 

[Jeff Wilder]

Just remember the orcish proverb "The unconscious are always willing".

Just to add something, because it can be unintuitive, even when you don't get a saving throw because you're unconscious, you do get the "benefit" of spell resistance. (Having a PC with SR is a serious double-edged sword. God forbid you go to -9 and your cleric has exactly one chance to get through your SR with a cure. Pathfinder's Channel Energy FTW!)