Scale mail in the modern age

[Nyaricus]

Connections, Series 1, Episode 8

Pay particular attention to parts 1 & 2, where he talks about the development of pikes, muskets and bayonets, and their impact on military tactics.

Wow, thanks for sharing. Fascinating series.

 

[Kmart Kommando]

Dragon Skin

badass. That's what DR 15/magic should look like.

 

[green slime]

i've seen a candle fired from a musket that went through plywood and 2 rows of bricks - even if an early lead shot didn't penetrate top of the range armour it would certainly knock you backwards (and potentially off the back of a horse)

Nonsense. It would only knock you backward if the recoil from the musket was so great, the shooter was knocked back as well.

 

[Yair]

Pretty impressive. I didn't get how much this things weighs, but it seems fairly light and with impressive stopping power.

The capability to do damage still outstrips our ability to protect from damage, broadly speaking. Not even a tank can withstand a high-quality explosive charge or missile. But still, this personal armor affords a high level of defense. I wonder if a "full armor" suit of this nature wouldn't allow soldiers to be virtually immune to any small-arms, grenades, and similar explosives; they'd be like little gods of war, vulnerable only to heavy machine guns (very clumsy and heavy), missiles (hard to aim at a person), directed charges (need to be set up in advance), and heavy bombs and cannons (not at all personal equipment).

I find myself wondering whether a mesh of nanotubes wouldn't be more effective than ceramics. Perhaps in a few more years.


Regarding the sociology of the matter - as was said, this will probably simply go to the Special Forces instead of the regular grunts. It's well established you can't protect anyone equally, there is no social problem here. Although if the armor does prove itself there would indeed be pressure to purchase it for the grunts too, I suppose.

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

Unfortunately, Dragon Skin is much heavier than the currently fielded Interceptor body armor with -- at least based on the Army's 2006 tests -- less effective protection, particularly under extreme temperature conditions. But there will be another round of testing this year, and I'm sure the product will continue to develop. There's certainly potential.

In the armor-antiarmor race, though, there's always a more dangerous projectile. The challenge with body armor is to get sufficient protection for the most probable threats without hampering mobility and stamina. Give troops effective enough weapons, and the armor will start to come off as it did in the 1700s, as the protection isn't worth the sacrifice in mobility if eveery opposing weapon can punch through it.

 

[Phlebas]

Nonsense. It would only knock you backward if the recoil from the musket was so great, the shooter was knocked back as well.

Shooters braced and prepared, target is surprised and depending on angle of impact unable to be braced.

The point was that the force involved is quite impressive even if it doesn't penetrate - armour spreads the load but you still hear of broken bones underneath kevlar armour

 

[green slime]

Shooters braced and prepared, target is surprised and depending on angle of impact unable to be braced.

The point was that the force involved is quite impressive even if it doesn't penetrate - armour spreads the load but you still hear of broken bones underneath kevlar armour

Watch footage of people being shot. They do not recoil backwards as in hollywood movies. They crumple.

 

[Yair]

Unfortunately, Dragon Skin is much heavier than the currently fielded Interceptor body armor with -- at least based on the Army's 2006 tests -- less effective protection, particularly under extreme temperature conditions.

That is most unfortunate.

 

[mmadsen]

The point was that the force involved is quite impressive even if it doesn't penetrate - armour spreads the load but you still hear of broken bones underneath kevlar armour

This piece on Infantry Missile Weapons in the Renaissance is instructive -- even though it has a significant error in it.

An early matchlock firearm, an arquebus, shot a 45-gram projectile at 300 meters per second. (The article drops a zero and says 30 m/s, which is just 60 mph.)

A crossbow might shoot a 125-gram bolt at 45 m/s.

Thus the arquebus round has almost two-and-a-half times the momentum of the crossbow bolt -- which sounds impressive untile you realize that a modern 800-gram javelin can be thrown at 70 mph (about 35 m/s), for about twice the momentum of that lead ball.

So a gunshot should be able to knock someone over about as well as a javelin, if we're generous. The real difference is that the small, fast bullet has much more kinetic energy than slower weapons, so it has more destructive power.

 

[mmadsen]

I wonder if a "full armor" suit of this nature wouldn't allow soldiers to be virtually immune to any small-arms, grenades, and similar explosives; they'd be like little gods of war, vulnerable only to heavy machine guns (very clumsy and heavy), missiles (hard to aim at a person), directed charges (need to be set up in advance), and heavy bombs and cannons (not at all personal equipment).

Some people are already arguing that the RPG is the primary weapon of insurgents, and assault rifles are merely support weapons, so I think heavily armored infantry would quickly go up in smoke -- if they didn't overheat before they even got into combat.

Mobility and perception are very, very important in modern warfare.