Schoolman class

[DanMcS]

I'm trying to come up with an improved Expert (the NPC class) that would work as a PC.

For reference:

BAB: 3/4
Good will save, others poor.
d6 hit die
Choosed 10 skills to be class skills.
6 skill points/level.
Proficient with simple weapons and light armor.

Classwise, it's closest to a bard, which gets two good saves, spellcasting, and bardic knowledge/music. Rogues give sneak attack, class abilities like evasion, and 2 more skill points/level.

Here's what I'm thinking.

Explorer
hit dice: d6
BAB: 3/4
All medium saves (+1,+2,+2,+2,+3,+3,+4,+4,+4,+5, +5,+6,+6,+6,+7,+7,+8,+8,+8,+9) (as d20 modern medium progression)
All skills are class skills.
8 skill points/level.
Proficient with simple weapons and light armor.

Special abilities:
1 Bonus feat, scholarly knowledge
2 Bonus feat
3
4 Bonus feat
5
6 Bonus feat
7
8 Bonus feat
9
10 Bonus feat
11
12 Special ability
13
14 Special ability
15
16 Special ability
17
18 Special ability
19
20 Special ability

Scholarly knowledge: like bardic knowledge
Bonus feats: Any skill feat (skill focus, one of the +2/+2 feats, concentration, tracking, etc), Great Fortitude, Iron Will, Lightning Reflexes, or Toughness.

Special Ability: at 12th level, and every two levels after that, the Explorer can take one of the following special abilities, provided you meet the listed prereq.
Sneak Attack: +1d6 damage, as a rogue (prereq: hide 13 ranks).
Evasion (prereq: tumble 13 ranks).
Trapfinding (as a rogue) (prereq: search 13 ranks).
Skill Mastery (as a rogue).
Spellcasting: Select two 0th or 1st level spells from the bard, cleric, druid, or wizard list. You cast spontaneously like a 1st level sorceror, based on Charisma. Prereq: Spellcraft 13 ranks.
Bonus Feat: any feat you meet the prereqs for.


What do you think? Too good? Still underpowered? This guy is a skill-monkey even more than the rogue or bard, and less useful in combat than either, with no sneak attack or spells until very high levels. Maybe he should have better saves than just Will.

 

[JimAde]

I like this concept but think it's a bit overpowered. That "all skills are class skills" is a big deal for a skill-centered character. Maybe you should let it have any 10 skills as class skills (like the Expert).

Emerald Press has a product called Campaign Options: Mazes that includes an Explorer class. It's a very similar concept and has some cool abilities, including a feat slot that can be "swapped out" based on research into an area the character is planning to explore.

Here's a review of theproduct (which I did some playtesting for):
http://www.enworld.org/reviews/index.php?sub=yes&where=active&reviewer=Crothian&product=DOM

 

[AeroDm]

I think you'll see a lot of people who will take a single level for the +1 to all saves and skill boost at 1st level. I am not sure if there is anything in the class to keep people around. It would, however, make a great NPC/cohort class because you could specialize it wherever you like.

 

[DanMcS]

I like this concept but think it's a bit overpowered. That "all skills are class skills" is a big deal for a skill-centered character. Maybe you should let it have any 10 skills as class skills (like the Expert).

Yeah, I couldn't think of a better way to do it. Now I have, though, I think.

Say we divide skills up into groups. All explorers have "knowledgeable", and all knowledge skills are in-class for them. I originally conceived the class as a studious type who took to the field, hence the focus on knowledge skills. I should probably make the class name more descriptive, "Scholarly Explorer" or something, but I like base classes to have a one-word name that sums them up. Suggestions for a better name are welcome.

So they have knowledgeable, and then they select from among catgories:

Stealthy: MS, HS.
Perceptive: Spot, listen, search.
Athletic: Climb, jump, swim.
Nimble: Tumble, balance, escape artist.
Interaction: Bluff, diplomacy, intimidate, sense motive.
Outdoors: Ride, handle animal, survival, heal.
Linguist: Decipher script, forgery, speak language.
Manipulation: disable device, open lock, sleight of hand, use rope.
Magical: concentration, spellcraft, use magic device.

Blah, this is hard. The reason I did like "all class skills" was that it encouraged a character that would have a couple of ranks in a lot of things.

The guy that's going to be DMing this suggested the following list:
Spot, search, listen, balance, climb, knowledge-dungeoneering, hide, move silently, and then pick 10 more.

It's very hard to balance a class that is as flexible as I imagined this. And he's still gonna be next-to-useless in combat.

Emerald Press has a product called Campaign Options: Mazes that includes an Explorer class. It's a very similar concept and has some cool abilities, including a feat slot that can be "swapped out" based on research into an area the character is planning to explore.

I'll have to look for that at the game stores around here.

 

[gunter uxbridge]

But Dan, you should be used to that!!!!
HA!

Just kidding. Anyway, when you first brought this up I saw it as a kind of scout/explorer. Take the rogue skills that don't involve diplomacy, thievery or deception, throw in all the knowledge skills then 10 of the player's choice then we have something. As far as making the class something to stick around for, how about mixing up the bonus feat/special ability progression??? Bonus feat at first level, a special ability at second, a bonus at fourth, so on and so on. For the special abilities you just have to mix up the prerequisites.

Something to think on. Anyone????

 

[DanMcS]

I think you'll see a lot of people who will take a single level for the +1 to all saves and skill boost at 1st level. I am not sure if there is anything in the class to keep people around. It would, however, make a great NPC/cohort class because you could specialize it wherever you like.

I didn't think of the first level thing, and you're probably right about that. However, I'm making it for a character I want to play, so I'm not completely concerned about someone cherry-picking it for their first character level, since I want to stick with it. I'm trying to see if a character who isn't really useful in combat can still be a viable concept in a D&D game. Pretty much every class is (some more than others), but this guy isn't, by nature.

I did put in the special abilities at the top end, to give someone that stuck with it some rewards. You're right, even I'm thinking, this guy will probably end up with some Horizon Walker or Extreme Explorer levels.

 

[DanMcS]

Just kidding. Anyway, when you first brought this up I saw it as a kind of scout/explorer.

Yeah, but that's basically a rogue, still. I'm trying for a different archetype. The librarian lady in the mummy, Giles and Wesley on the Whedon shows, that kind of thing. Bookish guys that still go out and get their hands dirty.

Take the rogue skills that don't involve diplomacy, thievery or deception, throw in all the knowledge skills then 10 of the player's choice then we have something. As far as making the class something to stick around for, how about mixing up the bonus feat/special ability progression??? Bonus feat at first level, a special ability at second, a bonus at fourth, so on and so on. For the special abilities you just have to mix up the prerequisites.

That's not a bad idea, abilitywise; maybe:
1 feat
2 feat
3 --
4 special ability
5 --
6 feat
7 --
8 SA
9 --
10 feat
...

So a "special ability" at 4th, 8th, 12th, 16th, and 20th, and feats at 1st and every non-SA even level. Probably just drop the prereqs from the special abilities, that was a half-baked idea anyway.

Hey, I came up with a good name, a Schoolman.

Class Skills: all knowledges taken individually, speak languages, survival, decipher script, and 8 of the player's choice.

It's not like he's not going to have enough skill points to take cross-class skills if he wants.

 

[gunter uxbridge]

Keep it up and this will probably wind up in a Mythe suppliment.

Yeah, but that's basically a rogue, still. I'm trying for a different archetype. The librarian lady in the mummy, Giles and Wesley on the Whedon shows, that kind of thing. Bookish guys that still go out and get their hands dirty.




That's not a bad idea, abilitywise; maybe:
1 feat
2 feat
3 --
4 special ability
5 --
6 feat
7 --
8 SA
9 --
10 feat
...

So a "special ability" at 4th, 8th, 12th, 16th, and 20th, and feats at 1st and every non-SA even level. Probably just drop the prereqs from the special abilities, that was a half-baked idea anyway.

Hey, I came up with a good name, a Schoolman.

Class Skills: all knowledges taken individually, speak languages, survival, decipher script, and 8 of the player's choice.

It's not like he's not going to have enough skill points to take cross-class skills if he wants.

 

[gunter uxbridge]

Class Skills: all knowledges taken individually, speak languages, survival, decipher script, and 8 of the player's choice.

Use magic device???

 

[gunter uxbridge]

Stupid double post.