Scott Thorne, a retailer, comments on recent events

[Wicht]

Though I will readily admit that as nothing more than some guy out there in the interwebs, it is a bit fun to watch as my predictions come to be.

I hear that.

It was just this past July I was getting grief for making the observation that I would not be surprised to learn Paizo's market share was as high as 25-40%.

 

[ExploderWizard]

Really? Then explain to me why Blizzard continually needs to rebalance World of Warcraft all the time? Even after new patches have been on the Public Test Realm for weeks on end... theoretically gaining all the beta info they need to get their patch "right"... even after the patch gets released to the general playing audience there are still constant tweaks and hotfixes that occur to the game itself every Tuesday. Why? Because you can't find everything even WITH beta-testing. Balance issues are constantly changing, especially once you move from a smaller beta test sample size to everybody playing with it.

And Blizzard is their industry's 'top dog' too. In actuality, a much, much bigger dog that WotC is. Are you going to say that they have 'no excuse' for needing to do all their hotfixes after the fact?

Are you really going to compare an MMO to to a tabletop rpg and expect not to get laughed at?

Constant patches and tweaks are par for the course in an MMO environment. The crunch is all handled seamlessly in the background. If the developers make changes and adjustments here and there the average player needs to do nothing different. There are simply new physics at work in the computer fantasy realm.

Constant rules changes in a tabletop rpg is a frustrating headache. People have to absorb and interpret the rules during actual play. You learn how to play a certain system until it becomes second nature. Then the rules can fade into the background once learned without intruding too much upon the actual playing.

If the rules are constantly changing, they will never be learned well enough to keep them from dominating play and resolving things never gets all that much faster because the system requires a constant never-ending learning process. Learning new things about a game as play progresses is cool. Constantly having to check to see if what you already think you know is still valid is an abysmal waste of time.

 

[carmachu]

I don't recall them being part of the announced plans at launch. I do however very much recall them being rushed into development on a shorter than normal timetable, which rather suggests they were added late in response to changes in management whim or market research rather than being something planned well in advance.

And given the way that esesentials was marketed, as a step back into things that folks reconized(like being what was it they called it, 3.75, 3.9) it seemed more like trying to snag some folKS with nostalgia rather then a planned from the beginning.

I dont remember anything like this planned at all from the outset. Tabletop, DDI, electronic magaines- monster and character builder...all those were planned at the beginning prior to release.

Essential box? Wasnt part of the plan.

 

[Banshee16]

I seem to remember reading WotC writing that there was going to be no 4.5, because they learned how much customers were frustrated by 3.5 coming out so close after 3.0.

The *impression* I get is that Impressions may have been a "knee jerk" type product release.

For that matter, the release of 4E seemed rushed. IIRC, at GenCon 2007, didn't they say that 4E was a long way off? Then, 4E was announced the following year at WinterCon or something, and came out a few months later at GenCon.

3E was announced a full year ahead of time. I can't help thinking that there may be a trend.....but that's just my impression.

Is it possible that they got pushed into releasing the game early? Maybe they're finding themselves increasingly under the gun by their owners. That pressure wouldn't have been there in 1999, because Hasbro didn't own WotC yet at that point....3E was announced at Gen Con in 1999, and Hasbro completed the purchase a month or two later.

Banshee

 

[shadzar]

For that matter, the release of 4E seemed rushed. IIRC, at GenCon 2007, didn't they say that 4E was a long way off? Then, 4E was announced the following year at WinterCon or something, and came out a few months later at GenCon.

Technically 4th edition isn't due out until April this year.

Countdown to Fourth Edition

 

[Banshee16]

I seem to remember reading WotC writing that there was going to be no 4.5, because they learned how much customers were frustrated by 3.5 coming out so close after 3.0.

The *impression* I get is that Impressions may have been a "knee jerk" type product release.

For that matter, the release of 4E seemed rushed. IIRC, at GenCon 2007, didn't they say that 4E was a long way off? Then, 4E was announced the following year at WinterCon or something, and came out a few months later at GenCon.

3E was announced a full year ahead of time. I can't help thinking that there may be a trend.....but that's just my impression.

Is it possible that they got pushed into releasing the game early? Maybe they're finding themselves increasingly under the gun by their owners. That pressure wouldn't have been there in 1999, because Hasbro didn't own WotC yet at that point....3E was announced at Gen Con in 1999, and Hasbro completed the purchase a month or two later.

Banshee

 

[Alzrius]

IIRC, at GenCon 2007, didn't they say that 4E was a long way off? Then, 4E was announced the following year at WinterCon or something, and came out a few months later at GenCon.

In fact, WotC announced Fourth Edition at Gen Con 2007; something they had been denying up until that point. The 4E PHB, which was the first Fourth Edition product notwithstanding promos like the online magazine articles and preview books such as Worlds & Monsters, came out in June of 2008.

 

[Banshee16]

In fact, WotC announced Fourth Edition at Gen Con 2007; something they had been denying up until that point. The 4E PHB, which was the first Fourth Edition product notwithstanding promos like the online magazine articles and preview books such as Worlds & Monsters, came out in June of 2008.

I seem to remember something funny with the timing....was it that at WinterCon they denied that 4E was coming out yet, and said that the next edition wouldn't be announced at Gen Con? Then they turned around and announced it at Gen Con a few months later?

that's what I remember....but I could be wrong. Something along those lines. At the time, given the buzz, I had thought WotC was going to announce 4E at Gen Con in 2007.....then they said at another show that they weren't going to announce it that year...then all of a sudden they did. That's what caught me off guard.

I remember thinking at the time that it almost felt like they'd had a bad quarter, sales were falling through the floor on 3E materials, and that management pushed them to announce the new edition early, and release it early. It felt rushed.

When 3E came out, there was a long, long playtest. One of the players in our group was even involved in it.....but he never told us until after the fact, due to the NDA. I guess he was only testing the new edition in a game he was playing with, in another group. 4E seemed to have such a short playtest period by comparison.

The truth will likely never come out.....this could all be baseless guessing....or it could be right on, but nobody will ever admit it due to legal reasons.

Banshee

 

[Banshee16]

Technically 4th edition isn't due out until April this year.

Countdown to Fourth Edition

That's a blast from the past

Banshee

 

[ProfessorCirno]

Essentials and 3.5 are close to nothing alike, and I rarely see the comparison made by people who, you know, have played them. 3.5 was a massive revamp amongst dozens and dozens of tiny pinpricks - tons and tons of small changes culminating in one large change, including a full revamp of classes and abilities. Essentials has no rule changes and doesn't contain any revamps of classes or abilities.

You cannot play a 3.0 and 3.5 ranger together. You can play a thief and a rogue together.

Essentials is by and large little more then a new set of splats with a new variant style of class that doesn't utilize the powers system. That's it. It's as much as a "4.5" as Tome of Magic made 3.75.

While "Essentials" in of itself was not the literal plan we were given, the plan of having callback products to bring back in older gamers was in the original plan, and the timing coincided perfectly with when Essentials - a series of callback products to bring back older gamers - was released.