the Jester
Legend
Can I use spell on a scroll with a component of 'undead,' 'demon,' etc. if I'm not an undead, demon, etc.?
Will Use Magic Device help?
Will Use Magic Device help?
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Scroll of spells with 'type' components
- Thread starter the Jester
- Start date
AGGEMAM
First Post
A spell with a type? Interesting!
The general rule is that you can't cast a spell from a scroll if you don't have the spell on your spell list. Remember that the spell list has to be upgraded with any new spells the DM makes available.
I could be wrong but I beleive that the Use a Scroll entry in UMD is an extrapolation of the Emulate Class Feature (Spells) entry. I wouldn't allow it seeing that no other entry in the UMD description fits.
The general rule is that you can't cast a spell from a scroll if you don't have the spell on your spell list. Remember that the spell list has to be upgraded with any new spells the DM makes available.
I could be wrong but I beleive that the Use a Scroll entry in UMD is an extrapolation of the Emulate Class Feature (Spells) entry. I wouldn't allow it seeing that no other entry in the UMD description fits.
You must be of that type or subtype to cast the spell, in addition to class requirements. I haven't seen any spells for undead or demons, but the Book of Exalted Deeds has these for archons, celestials, guardinals, etc. Should work the same way.the Jester said:
I think so. Emulating a type or subtype seems like it's basically the same as trying to emulate a race.the Jester said:
DC 50? Ouch...
I doubt that I would protest a DC 35 or maybe 40 though since admittedly this isn't well defined. But even if you just limit yourself to humaniod you have such very different things as goblins, kobolds, merfolk, and githyanki. Conceptually it doesn't seem to me like it ought to be harder for a human to emulate a kobold than, say, a hill giant. It would be nice to have an official rule for emulating type, but I'm not aware of one.
I doubt that I would protest a DC 35 or maybe 40 though since admittedly this isn't well defined. But even if you just limit yourself to humaniod you have such very different things as goblins, kobolds, merfolk, and githyanki. Conceptually it doesn't seem to me like it ought to be harder for a human to emulate a kobold than, say, a hill giant. It would be nice to have an official rule for emulating type, but I'm not aware of one.
Scharlata
First Post
Darren said:
Hi!
"Undead, Corrupt, Location, Soul, Demon, Devil, Fiend, Drug, Disease" all appear for the first time in the Book of Vile Darkness.
Supporting the "no, you must be of the type, have contracted the correct disease, must be under the influence of the correct drug" to cast the spell on a scroll fraction here.
From the FAQ (3.0) to the BoVD, Spell Descriptions (p. 83): While most spells require all the material components listed for them, the demon, devil, fiend, and undead components from the BoVD are special. If more than one of these are listed, the caster need satisfy only one of them.
The Book of Vile Darkness has rules for the "Corruption" cost for a character who scribes such spells on scrolls or brews potion from, or crafts wands with them. The creator doesn't pay the price. The consumer/reader/user of the magic item must pay the ability damage. Addition from the FAQ (3.0): Anyone using corrupt spells has to pay the cost, even if normally immune to ability damage, ability drain, or energy drain.
If we extrapolate the requirements to pay the cost as consumer/reader/user of a magic item, we could conjecture the same for the requirements to be an undead/demon/devil etc.
Kind regards
the Jester
Legend
Any other opinions or info I should consider here before I decide which way to run it?
DreamChaser
Explorer
the Jester said:
Basic motivations: Why would an evil character create an item that would require them to pay the price while anyone else could use it without problem. Even if they intended to use it for themselves, why would the pay the price for a spell they may never have to use?
and also
And from the idea of drain: the negative effects of corrupt spells (and exalted spells for that matter) go into effect when the duration of the spell ends, no matter how it is cast.
All of these indicate that the "special components" of BoVD and BoED spells are not payed by the scriber.
Thus the type component would not be either. Of course, only such a creature could scribe the scroll; but only such a creature should be able to use it.
In terms of the UMD, I would put disease and undead in the same category as "race" (vampires and liches both have the augmented "type" subtype and a person with a disease does not--usually--change race). Demon I would put 5 higher than Alignment. Demons, devils, yugoloths, etc are little more than physical embodiments of evil alignments.
Now, if a character were able to cast Corrupt (or Exalted) spells, I would consider them to be on their spell list but would still require them to use a UMD check to emulate the required aspect. I would give them a bonus to the roll (probably a +10) since they understand all of how the spell works but are trying to avoid a restriction.
Just my take on the sit.
DC
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