Sculpt Spell

[werk]

You're kidding, right? I have to choose exactly the spot to protect using sculpt spell at the time of preparation?

Not pre-shape, but prepare the area of effect type. So you'd mem fireball as "4 10' cubes" rather than sphere.

I do see your argument tho, if you make them prepare the shape, it further impairs casters that must prepare spells in advance...much like all the other metamagic feats.

 

[Mistwell]

Not pre-shape, but prepare the area of effect type. So you'd mem fireball as "4 10' cubes" rather than sphere.

I do see your argument tho, if you make them prepare the shape, it further impairs casters that must prepare spells in advance...much like all the other metamagic feats.

Why not preshape? I mean, why not even require wizards to designate the range in advance for all spells? It's the same thing really...a decision you make with the spell.

 

[Mavrik]

Your not preparing the result ahead of time...

Fireball - normally 20ft radius spread
You prepare it in the morning using Sculpt Spell and change it's area to 40ft Fire cone instead. You prepare that as a 4th levels spell.

Thats not the result ahead of time

or I prepare Fireball as a 4th level spell and as I cast it I make it a fireline 120ft long or Ill make it a cylinder 30ft high or a cone... and make the desicion as yuo cast it... seems very good for +1level

Remember it not just for Fireballs etc.

Example - Wizard Prepares Glitterdust as a 3rd level spell (area usually 10ft radius) During the combat he cast it either as a 40ft cone of glitterdust, or a 20ft radius (doubling its size) or ... a 120ft line of glitterdust potentially effecting 19people (ok thats a little unlikely)

Mav

 

[werk]

Why not preshape? I mean, why not even require wizards to designate the range in advance for all spells? It's the same thing really...a decision you make with the spell.

You're just being obtuse.

But I would expound upon your reasoning... If a wizard had the energy substitution feat twice, say Ice and Electricity, would you let that wizard prepare the fireball as normal, but then decide the energy type at casting? Or say they have Extend and Enlarge...since they are both a +1 level adjustment, do you let a wizard prepare a spell one level higher, then decide which feat to apply at casting?

I view it as relatively the same.

 

[Mistwell]

The wording on sculpt spell is the same as the wording on all other metamagic feats. "You can modify an area spell by changing the areas shape to ...." is the same kind of wording as many other metamagic feats. You don't have to choose the exact range when modifying the spell with a range-altering feat...yet somehow you have to choose the exact shape when modifying the spell with an area-altering feat?

Come on guys...if you want to make sorcerors more powerful in your games feel free to do so. But don't stretch to find excuses to give them more power by reading a whole host of feats so strictly that they are eliminated as choices for a wizard. If you remove ALL flexibility inherant in the choices the feat offers you, you eliminate 90% of the utility of the feat itself. Those feats are chosen expressly because of that flexibility.

Nobody is paying a feat and spell slots, in advance, just to make their fireballs simply look different and that's all...the whole point was to alter to spell on casting to strike particular targets, and miss others, that otherwise could not be done without the feat.

 

[Mistwell]

You're just being obtuse.

Yes, because the direct approach wasn't working. If you couldn't see how extremely narrow your reading of the rule was, I decided it was best to demonstrate how messed up your logic on this particular topic was by being as obtuse as you were.

But I would expound upon your reasoning... If a wizard had the energy substitution feat twice, say Ice and Electricity, would you let that wizard prepare the fireball as normal, but then decide the energy type at casting?

No, because it is specifically two different feats. In this case, it is ONE feat, with no wording at all that you make the choice at the time you prepare the spell.

Or say they have Extend and Enlarge...since they are both a +1 level adjustment, do you let a wizard prepare a spell one level higher, then decide which feat to apply at casting?

No of course not, same logic, two different feats, while in the case we are discussing it is one feat with no notation that says you must choose in advance.

I view it as relatively the same.

Really, you view sculpt spell as five feats, despite it not being five feats but having the "either/or" wording, having no notation about deciding in advance, despite other feats having such a notation?

 

[Artoomis]

Hmm... I lean towards the requirement to declare the shape when memorized. That seems to be most consistent with other metamagic.

That said, I would almost always choose 4 10' cubes, that way I can put the spell where I want. Very powerful, that.

BTW: Does this require preparing the spell at a level higher than normal?

 

[Mistwell]

For reference, here is the text of the feat:

Sculpt Spell
You can alter the area of your spells.
Prerequisite: Any metamagic feat
Benefit: You can modify an area spell by changing the area's shape to either a cylinder (10-foot radius, 30 feet high), a 40-foot cone, four 10-foot cubes, a ball (20-foot-radius spread), or a 120-foot line. The sculpted spell works normally in all respects except for its shape. For example, a lightening bolt whose area is changed to a ball deals the same amount of damage, but affects a 20-foo-radius spread.
A sculpted spell sues a spell slot one level higher than the spell's actual level.

 

[werk]

If you couldn't see how extremely narrow your reading of the rule was, I decided it was best to demonstrate how messed up your logic on this particular topic was by being as obtuse as you were.

OK. I'll not disagree, but say that your reading is too 'loose' for me.

Really, you view sculpt spell as five feats, despite it not being five feats but having the "either/or" wording, having no notation about deciding in advance, despite other feats having such a notation?

No, I'm not viewing it as five feats, but as one feat with 5 different options...which must be predetermined when the spell is prepared...much like all other metamagic feats. Bring something else to the argument besides you are wrong because I say so.

"Wizards and divine spellcasters must prepare their spells in advance." That usually includes area of effect, last time I checked.

 

[KarinsDad]

First off, I view Sculpt Spell as a little broken as is.

In my game, you cannot cast it on an area spell that has a lesser area then what Sculpt Spell grants. In other words, you cannot use it as a cheap way to Widen Spell a spell.

Secondly, the feat does not state that you can change the shape on the fly. Making "on the fly" changes is beyond the scope of what a +1 metamagic feat should do. That would be like putting Silent Spell and Still Spell and Eschew Materials into one +1 feat and then choosing the component you want to drop at the time of casting.

Finally, I do not like the "4 cubes" option because it does not state how you can arrange the cubes (e.g. whether they have to touch on a side, a corner, or not at all, etc.). Plus, depending on arrangement, that can make an area effect spell nearly individual target level of targeting which virtually no other area effect spell has.


I also think that the "metamagic range" counter argument is not very strong. Most spells allow for a range "up to x" and Enlarge spell increase the maximum range. That does not change the "up to x" portion of a range spell. The range variability is in the spell before applying the metamagic feat. That's an apples and oranges type of argument.