Sean Reynolds rant about terminology

[Aaron L]

Yeah, all those wierdos who drink soda instead of pop. Heck, you can even buy "red pop", labeled so, around here.

 

[herald]

This goes to a deeper issue....

I have always had a problem with those who limit forms of communication.

In my own sense, I have seen this in the 20 years I have done 20 years of improvisational acting. One of the stupid rules of inprovisation is; "Never ask questions while acting improv."

The explination of the rule is simple. By asking questions, your being passive, and not active. Your not contributing to the sceen as much as your partner. To which I say "Crap"!

Questions imply thing that you cannot get in any other way. You might be able to impart the same information in a declaritive sentance, but it will not carry the same emotional tone or weight if placed into a sentance.

I always question people if they have given the idea the full thought when they say, don't use these words. Don't communicate in that way.

In the end I have always felt that deep inside, they don't want to be made to feel that thier wrong. What they want to do is to force people to agree with them by limiting the way ideas are exchanged.

Once you limit the way people communicate, you control ideas and expression. You codify thought and you bring banality to standard.

So I say to Mr. Renolds, pick up a copy of 1984, and think about what your really asking for with your rant. You might just want to change your tone.

And as a postscript: Orc sword and Orcish sword. Don't give Mr. Tolken a hard time. He not only wrote the Lord of the Rings, he also wrote the Oxford Dictionary.

 

[Tsyr]

Gyah. Faygo. Eeeeevil.

Around here, it's become "geek lingo" to use the term Soda, even though "pop" is the more common phrase.

Normaly though we refer to the drink by name... IE, "Hey, pass me a dew, will ya?", not "Hey, pass me a pop, will ya?" even when there is only a single choice.

 

[Khan the Warlord]

Damn

I was compiling my reply, then had to step away from the computer for an hour or so, then came back and saw the following:

I never attacked the man, personally or otherwise.

I never made any comments about this sex life.

I didn't even put him down.

I just pointed out that, if you are going to give a rant about poor proofreading, telling people to proofread what they write let he be forced to burn someone in effigy... well, then I would say that it would do you a world of good to proofread your rant, lest someone call you on it.

When I post, I generally do not do a lot of proofreading, nor do I come down on those that have typo-ridden postings -- here or elsewhere. I have the worst typing skills (and bad habits) you can find. That sort of thing, for me, would be pointless. Secondly, I have a habbit of posting when I am in a hurry, and so my ideas sometimes get muddled together and I have been asked to explain myself on more than one occation. No problem. It's fair to do so.

But anytime you stick your head out, you invite criticism. He stuck his head out; he did it without following the very advice he is ranting about. Hense, my comment.

On the other hand, from a d20 publishers standpoint, he has many very valid points. He just chose, in my very humble and personal opinion, a poor way of expressing it. In fact, I figure there are those that will now do the things he is trying to prevent, just to spite him.

I await at this point, the Big Book o'd20 Enchantments, the Catalog of Orcish and Gnomish Weapons and Devices and the ever popular Female-Specific Core and Prestige Classes supplements.

Well, KDLadage pretty much said the same as I felt, but here are a few snippets from my reply anyway:

First, let me say that Sean Reynolds is 100% on target with his little rant. However, let me also add that Sean has contradicted himself by the following:

I realize that "enchantment" and "enhancement" are very similar words, but good lord pay attention to what you're writing and at least proofread it! Otherwise some day somebody is going to write rules for "enchantment bonuses" to weapons, and I'm going to have burn someone in effigy. Probably Ricky Martin,

Now, let's turn this around and examine a few of Sean's errors:

It upsets me when they deliberately use different rules them wrong when they don't understand why the actual works and their variant doesn't (and was, in fact, abandoned during playtesting for that reason).

"different rules them wrong" -- huh?

Game-term sizes are always printed with a capitol letter so you know it's referring to a game term and not just a descriptive term

Main Entry: cap·i·tol
Pronunciation: 'ka-p&-t&l, 'kap-t&l
Function: noun
Etymology: Latin Capitolium, temple of Jupiter at Rome on the Capitoline hill
Date: 1699
1 a : a building in which a state legislative body meets b : a group of buildings in which the functions of state government are carried out
2 capitalized : the building in which the U.S. Congress meets at Washington

Methinks you meant "capital".

Main Entry: capital
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English, from Latin capitalis, from capit-, caput
Date: 14th century
1 of a letter : of or conforming to the series A, B, C, etc. rather than a, b, c, etc.
2 a : punishable by death <a capital crime> b : involving execution <capital punishment> c : most serious <a capital error>
3 a : chief in importance or influence <capital ships> <the capital importance of criticism in the work of creation itself -- T. S. Eliot> b : being the seat of government
4 : of or relating to capital; especially : relating to or being assets that add to the long-term net worth of a corporation <capital improvements>

The PH and the OGL system reference document

I'm sorry Sean, but it is commonly (and I believe properly) abbreivated as "PHB", not "PH".

Tolkien's elves speak elvish and his orcs speak orcish, but D&D elves speak Elven and D&D elves speak Orc.

That's weird, I thought that D&D elves speak Elven, but now they speak Orc as well?



Anyway, rants are rants, but one should know ahead of time to not issue warnings like: "good lord pay attention to what you're writing and at least proofread it!" -- because some anal arse like myself is bound to come along and point out some of your own errors.

Seriously though, Sean was very right in everything he mentioned -- I just have to provide jabs of my own.

 

[ColonelHardisson]

Y'know, the typos in SKR's rant may well be purposeful, as some have touched upon. Maybe to show us that he isn't really that much of a word-fascist, and is simply venting. It is his site, after all. Why shouldn't he blow off steam there? On the other hand, though, he's fully aware that a lot of fans read his site, so even a slight indication that he is merely ranting about such stuff in relation to d20/D&D designers, not the population in general, would have headed off the irritation evidenced in this thread.

Perhaps he wanted to stir up some trouble, though. We see enough evidence that there are people who enjoy that right here on these boards.

 

[Pielorinho]

That should be "... a split infinitive is impossible ever to create ..."

You surely don't think I'm going to actually write a rant about hyperpedantic grammarians and use the "no split infinitives" nonsense as an example of ignorant grammatical excess, and not put a split inifinitive in there somewhere, do you?

No. Split inifinitives are logically acceptable in English, and most people who passionately study the language understand that. It's only folks who don't understand the history of split infinitives, and their respected use, who rail against them.

Daniel
ex-grammar tutor

P.S. in case it matters, the first sentence in this post contains a bad use of a split infinitive; it's only there because I want to (hopefully) be consistent. And that use, just there, in the previous sentence, was correct.

Daniel

 

[Maerdwyn]

(To extend the tangent - Aren't there some areas of the US where all fizzy non-alcoholic beverages just called "Coke"?)

re: SKR's rant:
I just plain disagree with him when gamers (as opposed to game designers) are concerned. In play, I try to describe the people the characters meet, and then go with whatever descriptor the players attribute to them until the truth (if it's different) comes out. If they think they are facing a sorcerer, and they are actually facing a wizard, fine.

 

[Ristamar]

Yeah, all those wierdos who drink soda instead of pop. Heck, you can even buy "red pop", labeled so, around here.

I say 'soda' or use a specific brand name, though most of my relatives say 'pop.' Pop always just sounded kinda hokey to me.

Actually, I always think of pop rocks (the old candy) when I hear someone call soda 'pop.'

 

[d20Dwarf]

Y'know, the typos in SKR's rant may well be purposeful, as some have touched upon.

Col.,

Sometimes your posts are insane, sometimes they are brilliant. This post was insane.

 

[CrazyMage]

1. I call it pop, though my college roommate was a Texan who called everything Coke. So I'd always ask him for a Pepsi Coke

2. Further off topic--It's a bubbler, and not a water fountain.

3. Back on topic--more precise use of language would save the Sage a few questions each month because people haven't bothered to check how a particular term is being used in the game. Hey, use whatever terms you want as long as you correctly understand the how the word is used in the PHB and DMG.

"There's a glory for you!"
"I don't know what you mean by 'glory'," Alice said.
"I meant 'there's a nice knock-down argument for you!'"
"But 'glory' doesn't mean 'a nice knock-down argument'," Alice objected.
"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said in a rather scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean--neither more nor less."

Maybe we need a Semantics 101 forum...