log in or register to remove this ad

 

Second Dungeons & Dragons Product for Fall 2018: Waterdeep: Dungeon of the Mad Mage

Wizards of the Coast announced the second product for Fall 2018, Waterdeep: Dungeon of the Mad Mage.


A video promotion from D&D Beyond (linked below) aired at the end of the Saturday events on the "Stream of Many Eyes" and was uploaded to YouTube shortly after. The book will be a megadungeon that runs from Level 6-20 that details 23 different levels to Undermountain each with their own feel and theme, along with a full detailing of Skullport. It's stated in the video that running the module with weekly sessions will take at least eight months. Waterdeep: Dungeon of the Mad Mage will be out November 13, 2018, with an MSRP of $49.95.

[video=youtube;wbVRQIOuI8s]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbVRQIOuI8s[/video]

This is the second product announced during the "Stream of Many Eyes" event on the Dungeons & Dragons Twitch channel. The event will continue on Sunday with celebrity games and potentially more product announcements from third-party companies like Gale Force Nine. The first product announced, Waterdeep: Dragon Heist (along with a special dice set), were announced on Friday, June 1.

 
Last edited by a moderator:

log in or register to remove this ad

Darryl Mott

Darryl Mott


log in or register to remove this ad

Aldarc

Legend
And this will likely go a long way towards addressing what I want, something more substantial than a perfunctory nod to non-FR settings. Hell, the below is eerily similar to my statement above regarding what I wanted:
These new publications won't be full-blown storylines, but rather an introduction to different worlds set inside the D&D multiverse. "It's going to be more like at the level of how Barovia [introduced in the Curse of Strahd adventure storyline] is in terms of stuff. Here's a thing that's going to give you a taste of the setting, but we're not going to that setting yet, we're just letting you get in there and start doing it."
 

Schmoe

Adventurer

Cool! That looks like it deserves a thread all it's own :)

I hope that people can tone down the debate about settings on this thread a little. It's starting to get personal, when it really shouldn't.

As far as the two releases, the Waterdeep heist and Undermountain, I think they look pretty incredible. I'm in the middle of a 3e game right now, but seeing this really makes me wish I had more time for gaming. Just so many adventures, and so little time. One thing that is remarkable, though:

20 LEVELS!

Seriously, nobody's talking about this? Every official WoTC adventure up to this point has stopped well below 20th, and support for the high levels in 5e has been decidedly lackluster. Which is shocking, because one of the primary points about Bounded Accuracy and a key design tenet of 5e was that it would support high level play. And yet, they've done absolutely nothing about high level play until what, 4 years in?
 

TheSword

Legend
I'm very offended to be considered a piranha. I'm only a D&D fan, like many others, who wants to be allowed to give life to IP wotc is leaving to oblivion. For me, wotc can take 99% of profit from dmsguild, the important thing is revivify IP they are lucky to manage but they did not create.

The metaphor for breaking up WOCs massive intellectual property into pieces for consumption by a large number of small individual writers is fair I think. Though granted piranhas get a bad rep. Apologies if you took offense.

DM guild writers get a shade more than 1% profit though, so it is difficult to take your statement at face value. If it isn’t about the money, posters share conversions and homebrew all the time on a not-for-profit basis.

With the phrase ‘manage but they did not create’ you seem to be suggesting that WOC legal ownership but not moral ownership over their IP. I’m not sure that gives you any better moral right to be able to sell the stuff.

As we have seen already above, WOCs intention to continue releasing Settings in a form akin to Curse of Strahd seems to be the case. They clearly aren’t leaving things to oblivion.
 

This again falls under the "pssst... not everyone can" from before.
Not everyone can what?

Update a setting? That requires zero work. You can use any of WotC's published adventures in Golarion effortlessly.

Update an adventure path? Yeah, that's slightly harder. But it just requires some knowledge of building encounters, and is less time consuming that doing a homebrew game. If you don't have the skill in the edition and in adventure design for than, then you probably should be sticking to the prepublished stuff anyway. But if you never design an encounter, if you never try converting an older edition adventure, you'll never learn those skills.

I'll also be "that guy". If it's a "time thing" and you simply do not have the time to plan a homebrew adventure or even convert 5-6 encounters from Pathfinder to 5e then maybe, just maybe, you shouldn't be GMing a game. If you're that short of time, maybe you need to pass the reins to someone else in the group and just play.

Many of which never see light at a games shop where many DMs I know buy their materials and nowhere else.They do not have the time to sift through 3pp settings, but they are also unhappy with the Realms.
If people don't have the time to sort through the existing 3rd Party campaign settings, WotC adding another option to the mix is NOT going to help.

It's tiring when WotC releases products that I am not interested in buying.
If WotC continually isn't releasing products you want find another game. Seriously. If a band stops releasing albums I like to listen to, I don't keep buying just their music. I find other bands. There's a tonn of great 3rd Party stuff out there.

I recommend starting with Kobold Press, who have a campaign setting and adventures. Or check out Primeval Thule.

Or go for a D&D-esque game like Adventures in Middle Earth or Amethyst: Quintessence. Perhaps 13th Age or Shadow of the Demon Lord.

It's tiring when they repeatedly tease their support of other campaign settings with little to show for it.
They tease because pople ask. They're answering the question. People keep asking about other settings and so they respond. Because if WotC doesn't, people WILL complain about them ignoring other settings. Because that's what happened. WotC teases because they got tired of people whining about how they were ignoring other settings.
This is a catch-22 situation for Wizards staff, because people are going to complain regardless.

Yes, they have plans. But they've also planned the line for a decade in advance and are focusing heavily on the basics. They're not going to blast the market with a decade of products over two years, because that kills the game line. And they're not going to go to Dark Sun before getting the basics done in the Realms.

It's tiring when I voice my dissatisfaction with what the adventures are publishing only to have a chorus of yes men shout down any alternative viewpoints.
I sympathise that you're not getting products you like. But WotC is a business and is under no obligation to release products just to make people happy. They haven't even released a real campaign setting for the Realms, why would they do one for another setting?
And they know the majority of players don't even use their existing setting of the Realms. Why would they add a second setting that an even smaller percentage will use?

The published adventures work and sell because they're easy enough for gamers running homebrew worlds to fairly easily convert to their homebrew settings.

If adventures are so easy to convert, then please let's have a Greyhawk, Eberron, Dark Sun, Dragonlance, or Planescape adventure book for converting to the Realms.
They did sidebars in Princes of the Apocalypse for converting the adventure. If that had been well received, I think they would have kept doing that in future books. But, honestly, that was a couple pages that could be better spent doing anything else, and getting the author to write that really requires a lot of setting lore of all settings. Generally, fans of the setting will know it better and be able to convert adventures on their own.

If you're having problems converting adventures, maybe start a thread that will help you convert one.

I've thought a "guide to other settings" product would have been cool and have been hyping that for years. But they're only doing one accessory every year, so I can see why that's a later release.
Even then, it's not like Greyhawk or Mystara or Planescape really need much content to be updated. Dragonlance just needs moon magic, Spelljammer just needs the rules for spelljamming and ships, Eberron needs five races and dragonmarks. That's all of a dozen pages. And it's hardly essential. You don't need the fancy Eberron races to play in Eberron. The big one would be Dark Sun that has several new races as well as a whole book of new monsters. That one is likely beyond the scope of a single 5e product.

The catch is, what's needed to convert an adventure to another setting?? (Excluding Spelljammer, Planescape, and Dark Sun)
You don't need any new crunch for that. You just need a location and to change some proper names. You need the lore of the setting and the ability to swap out, say, Waterdeep for Greyhawk or Palanthas and details on those locations. AND ALL THAT CONTENT IS ALREADY AVAILABLE.
If you wanted to change the upcoming Dragon Heist adventure to Dragonlance, you'd probably just need this book and maybe a campaign setting or two. And even odds a Dragonlance fan has those books on their shelf already.
WotC can only offer them content they already have.

Waterdeep can easily be adapted to any generic pseudo-medieval fantasy setting.

The problem is some of us are bored with generic pseudo-medieval in general, not Forgotten Realms in particular.
That's an older gamer problem.
The vast, vast majority of 5e gamers are not bored with generic fantasy, either being new to D&D and not jaded with the tropes, or being experienced and knowing there's other RPGs out there for different styles of fantasy and either sticking with D&D because they want a generic pseudo-medieval fantasy game or being skilled enough to add non-generic elements.

The big advantage with generic locations is they're easier to make less generic and add into your homebrew non-generic world. It's easy to add towers and craziness into Waterdeep, making it Sharn or Sigil, or a homebrew city built atop the shell of a giant turtle. But if you have an adventure set in Sharn, it's going to be that much harder to set it any other location. A Sharn adventure is pretty much only good for Sharn. Which makes the product significantly less useful.
That's the reason WotC is using the Realms. It's the baseline flavour for people who don't have the time to invent their own world, to save them the time of inventing a whole bunch of proper nouns, but generic enough it can fit into most people's homebrew world without a lot of work. A non-generic adventure is just going to make more work for a solid majority of their audience.

If you want something beyond the baseline, you're just going to have to look farther away from the big name company publishing safe books designed for mainstream appeal.
 

The interview says:

"Dungeons & Dragons plans to start talking about the new product as early as next month. "We have two surprises that I think hardcore D&D fans are really going to love coming this summer," Stewart said. "And then I think we got one surprise that's going to release later this year that we've not told anyone about. We're going to announce it in July."​

That's THREE things. Two this summer and another later this year.
And given we haven't seen codenamed releases for them on Amazon, despite releasing earlier in the year than Dragon Heist, I'm betting these are digital products.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Aldarc

Legend
Not everyone can what?
Not everyone can read that the conversation has moved on apparently, particularly with the most recent teased statements from WotC.

Jester David, I have no interest in responding to your needlessly wordy wall-of-text that desires to parse every single sentence uttered nor do I find that it's a good habit for generating good conversations. There is no discussion to be found in a one paragraph post followed by a one-page wall-of-text. It's fun for no one. Please learn to be more concise or summarize.
 

Not everyone can read that the conversation has moved on apparently, particularly with the most recent teased statements from WotC.
For what it's worth, I started poking away at my response a good hour before that news broke and just got busy getting my son ready for school and had to get back and hit "post".

Jester David, I have no interest in responding to your needlessly wordy wall-of-text that desires to parse every single sentence uttered nor do I find that it's a good habit for generating good conversations. There is no discussion to be found in a one paragraph post followed by a one-page wall-of-text. It's fun for no one. Please learn to be more concise or summarize.
If you have no interest in actually reading what people spend good time typing to you and engaging in the community, I'll save you the trouble by ignoring you in the future and not responding to you at all.
 

gyor

Legend
Cool! That looks like it deserves a thread all it's own :)

I hope that people can tone down the debate about settings on this thread a little. It's starting to get personal, when it really shouldn't.

As far as the two releases, the Waterdeep heist and Undermountain, I think they look pretty incredible. I'm in the middle of a 3e game right now, but seeing this really makes me wish I had more time for gaming. Just so many adventures, and so little time. One thing that is remarkable, though:

20 LEVELS!

Seriously, nobody's talking about this? Every official WoTC adventure up to this point has stopped well below 20th, and support for the high levels in 5e has been decidedly lackluster. Which is shocking, because one of the primary points about Bounded Accuracy and a key design tenet of 5e was that it would support high level play. And yet, they've done absolutely nothing about high level play until what, 4 years in?

It ties into all the high level stuff in MTOFs.
 

Aldarc

Legend
If you have no interest in actually reading what people spend good time typing to you and engaging in the community, I'll save you the trouble by ignoring you in the future and not responding to you at all.
I had read what you wrote, but reading what you wrote does not morally obligate me by any netiquette to respond to everything that you wrote, especially when it's presented as a giant wall-of-text. I would nevertheless recommend cultivating greater terseness over verbose wall-of-text responses going forward into the future.
 

Matthan

Explorer
As it happens, I like the 5e rules. And I don't hate generic pseudo-medieval. It just gets stale. Time to do something different then go back to the generic.

Having said that, give me a Space Opera total conversion of 5e and you wouldn't see me for dust! (Starfinder is way too clunky).

Not WotC, but MFoV just released a 5e conversion for magic sci-fi on their patreon. It'd be $3 to check it out. I don't want to drag the topic to far off course, but I wanted to share.
 

EthanSental

Adventurer
Does it mean the possible other settings are fair game for other poeple to use on the DMguild? Or do they have to state it's not fair game since I wasn't not paying attention when Ravenloft was added with CoS?
 


Does it mean the possible other settings are fair game for other poeple to use on the DMguild? Or do they have to state it's not fair game since I wasn't not paying attention when Ravenloft was added with CoS?
Maybe.
When Curse of Strahd was released, Ravenloft was added to the Guild. They might be doing something similar here.

I suspect we're getting introductory adventures, to introduce newer players to the settings' tropes and concepts along with starter regions and then opening up those worlds to Guild expansion.
 

DEFCON 1

Legend
People are free to express their distaste about what WotC does all they want. Just like other people are free to shake their heads at those people and tell them they're being ridiculous or silly or greedy or just haven't really thought things through and their complaints are pointless.

If you don't want anyone to respond to you, don't make a post.
 



Not everyone can what?

Update a setting? That requires zero work. You can use any of WotC's published adventures in Golarion effortlessly.

Update an adventure path? Yeah, that's slightly harder. But it just requires some knowledge of building encounters, and is less time consuming that doing a homebrew game. If you don't have the skill in the edition and in adventure design for than, then you probably should be sticking to the prepublished stuff anyway. But if you never design an encounter, if you never try converting an older edition adventure, you'll never learn those skills.

I'll also be "that guy". If it's a "time thing" and you simply do not have the time to plan a homebrew adventure or even convert 5-6 encounters from Pathfinder to 5e then maybe, just maybe, you shouldn't be GMing a game. If you're that short of time, maybe you need to pass the reins to someone else in the group and just play.


If people don't have the time to sort through the existing 3rd Party campaign settings, WotC adding another option to the mix is NOT going to help.


If WotC continually isn't releasing products you want find another game. Seriously. If a band stops releasing albums I like to listen to, I don't keep buying just their music. I find other bands. There's a tonn of great 3rd Party stuff out there.

I recommend starting with Kobold Press, who have a campaign setting and adventures. Or check out Primeval Thule.

Or go for a D&D-esque game like Adventures in Middle Earth or Amethyst: Quintessence. Perhaps 13th Age or Shadow of the Demon Lord.


They tease because pople ask. They're answering the question. People keep asking about other settings and so they respond. Because if WotC doesn't, people WILL complain about them ignoring other settings. Because that's what happened. WotC teases because they got tired of people whining about how they were ignoring other settings.
This is a catch-22 situation for Wizards staff, because people are going to complain regardless.

Yes, they have plans. But they've also planned the line for a decade in advance and are focusing heavily on the basics. They're not going to blast the market with a decade of products over two years, because that kills the game line. And they're not going to go to Dark Sun before getting the basics done in the Realms.


I sympathise that you're not getting products you like. But WotC is a business and is under no obligation to release products just to make people happy. They haven't even released a real campaign setting for the Realms, why would they do one for another setting?
And they know the majority of players don't even use their existing setting of the Realms. Why would they add a second setting that an even smaller percentage will use?

The published adventures work and sell because they're easy enough for gamers running homebrew worlds to fairly easily convert to their homebrew settings.


They did sidebars in Princes of the Apocalypse for converting the adventure. If that had been well received, I think they would have kept doing that in future books. But, honestly, that was a couple pages that could be better spent doing anything else, and getting the author to write that really requires a lot of setting lore of all settings. Generally, fans of the setting will know it better and be able to convert adventures on their own.

If you're having problems converting adventures, maybe start a thread that will help you convert one.

I've thought a "guide to other settings" product would have been cool and have been hyping that for years. But they're only doing one accessory every year, so I can see why that's a later release.
Even then, it's not like Greyhawk or Mystara or Planescape really need much content to be updated. Dragonlance just needs moon magic, Spelljammer just needs the rules for spelljamming and ships, Eberron needs five races and dragonmarks. That's all of a dozen pages. And it's hardly essential. You don't need the fancy Eberron races to play in Eberron. The big one would be Dark Sun that has several new races as well as a whole book of new monsters. That one is likely beyond the scope of a single 5e product.

The catch is, what's needed to convert an adventure to another setting?? (Excluding Spelljammer, Planescape, and Dark Sun)
You don't need any new crunch for that. You just need a location and to change some proper names. You need the lore of the setting and the ability to swap out, say, Waterdeep for Greyhawk or Palanthas and details on those locations. AND ALL THAT CONTENT IS ALREADY AVAILABLE.
If you wanted to change the upcoming Dragon Heist adventure to Dragonlance, you'd probably just need this book and maybe a campaign setting or two. And even odds a Dragonlance fan has those books on their shelf already.
WotC can only offer them content they already have.


That's an older gamer problem.
The vast, vast majority of 5e gamers are not bored with generic fantasy, either being new to D&D and not jaded with the tropes, or being experienced and knowing there's other RPGs out there for different styles of fantasy and either sticking with D&D because they want a generic pseudo-medieval fantasy game or being skilled enough to add non-generic elements.

The big advantage with generic locations is they're easier to make less generic and add into your homebrew non-generic world. It's easy to add towers and craziness into Waterdeep, making it Sharn or Sigil, or a homebrew city built atop the shell of a giant turtle. But if you have an adventure set in Sharn, it's going to be that much harder to set it any other location. A Sharn adventure is pretty much only good for Sharn. Which makes the product significantly less useful.
That's the reason WotC is using the Realms. It's the baseline flavour for people who don't have the time to invent their own world, to save them the time of inventing a whole bunch of proper nouns, but generic enough it can fit into most people's homebrew world without a lot of work. A non-generic adventure is just going to make more work for a solid majority of their audience.

If you want something beyond the baseline, you're just going to have to look farther away from the big name company publishing safe books designed for mainstream appeal.

Who you calling old?! 49 is nothing for a dwarf!

But the thing about older gamers is they tend to have a lot more disposable income than younger gamers.

And it looks like WotC has realised it can profit by catering to both.
 

Aldarc

Legend
People are free to express their distaste about what WotC does all they want. Just like other people are free to shake their heads at those people and tell them they're being ridiculous or silly or greedy or just haven't really thought things through and their complaints are pointless.

If you don't want anyone to respond to you, don't make a post.
Here, however, the how that response is constructed goes a long way.
 


Visit Our Sponsor

Latest threads

An Advertisement

Advertisement4

Top