Second Wind when Unconscious?

[questing gm]

If a PC is dying and unconscious, can another adjacent PC make a heal check to allow the unconscious PC to use his second wind if he hasn't spend it yet?

Relevant rules.

Heal skill on second wind. (Player's Handbook pg. 185)

Heal
Use Second Wind: Make a DC 10 Heal check to allow an adjacent character to use his or her second wind (page 291) without the character having to spend an action. The character doesn’t gain the defense bonuses normally granted by second wind.

Unconscious (Player's Handbook pg. 277)

UNCONSCIOUS
✦ You’re helpless.
✦ You take a –5 penalty to all defenses.
✦ You can’t take actions.
✦ You fall prone, if possible.
✦ You can’t flank an enemy.

The argument was that since you can't take action when unconscious, the Heal check is redundant. Any thoughts?

 

[Mistwell]

From first reading, it seems like yes, the awake character can cause the unconscious one to spend a surge.

 

[AngryMojo]

That's how I've always run it. Tie off the bleeding and slap him in the face, get him back up for now.

 

[Nifft]

Yep, works as written.

The only thing preventing the PC from spending his own second wind is the "can't take actions" bit. If someone allows him to spend his second wind without taking an action, he can do that just fine.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Infiniti2000]

Is the quote in error? It says he doesn't have to spend an "action," but is it supposed to be "surge?" If it really is action, then doesn't that answer the OP?

 

[KarinsDad]

Is the quote in error? It says he doesn't have to spend an "action," but is it supposed to be "surge?" If it really is action, then doesn't that answer the OP?

The quote is correct.

He spends a surge, he's unconscious, so he does not spend an action doing so.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

The whole reason it says the character doesn't have to spend an action is BECAUSE the whole thing would be worthless if he did. Furthermore its not on his turn, so what exactly type of action would it be?

Note that the rules DO have a term for this, its called a "No Action" and you'll actually find a few item powers which are designed to trigger after a character is unconscious or even dead that specifically have this as their action requirement. Since the First Aid options aren't written up as powers they don't specifically call it out that way but that's essentially what it is. Beyond that since when does the target of a power EVER have to spend an action as part of it anyway? Healing Word doesn't require the target to spend an action of any kind to get the benefit, so its not like First Aid is unique, it just looks different because its a task using a skill instead of an explicit power.

 

[CapnZapp]

You can't initiate a Second Wind yourself when unconscious. You can spend surges just fine, and if any power (cast on you by somebody else) allows you to take your Second Wind, then you can do it.

 

[Infiniti2000]

You can't initiate a Second Wind yourself when unconscious.

Nat 20 on the death save?

 

[Mentat55]

Rolling a natural 20 on your death save lets you spend a healing surge. This is different from taking your second wind.