Secret skill checks, DM or player rolls?

[RObiN-HoOD]

What skills checks do the DM rolls secretly?
I’ve read that the spot, listen etc skills are rolled by the DM secretly so that the players can not determined the DC. I agree with that but is that official? Is it stated somewhere in a book?

 

[pontus]

I think it is only suggested, and not a fixed rule. If your players are hard-core roleplayers, you really don't need to hide any checks from them, because they will have their characters act the same as if you hadn't just asked them to roll a spot check.

Most of the time, the DM should spare his players the temptation and just roll on his own.

 

[Li Shenron]

In my opinion it is a very DM choice most of the time. I usually roll myself, as a DM, most of the Search, Spot & Listen checks as well as NPC-interaction checks like Sense Motive, Diplomacy, Bluff...

Basically, I only ask myself if to know about his failure makes a PC behave differently (and better). Of course, if you ask him to roll a spot check (which is 99% a non-voluntarily action) the PC knows there's something to spot. For a voluntarily action, such as Search, still he can guess from the result: if he rolls the best and doesn't find anything, he won't go on, if he rolls a 1 he's 100% retrying.

I usually let them roll (or anyway see the result) when they can't do much anyway: for example you need Spot or Listen check to determine surprise conditions at the beginning of a battle, but since the battle is starting anyway immediately after, a PC who knows he couldn't notice the incoming foes (e.g. an ambush) can't do anything to avoid being surprised.

 

[nsruf]

I roll Search, Spot, Listen and Sense Motive in secret, because even knowing how high a roll was might give away something. The same would apply e.g. to craft skills where the PCs don't have time to test out their construction before using it. But they can roll Bluff or Diplomacy themselves, as the result will show immediately.

 

[Trellian]

Spot and Listen of course... search (even if they always search 2-3 times if they got the time). Sense Motive and Bluff.... Disable Device...

Usually, the clue is to whether or not the skill result will be obvious to the PCs at once. If they miss a climb check, they know that they failed, because they didn't climb any further, or maybe fell down. On a Disable Device check, the rogue can THINK it is safe to pass, when he really screwed up.

 

[dcollins]

The official list is shown on DMG p. 17.

In addition, I highly recommend doing the same for rogue-type trained-only skills: Decipher Script, Disable Device, Innuendo, and Read Lips.

Beyond that, I find it very useful to have players roll for obscuring-type skills, but only at the time that they're actually opposed: like Disguise, Forgery, Hide, and Move Silently.

 

[EOL]

I've tried all kinds of different methods. I've had players make 20 rolls before the session starts and then I randomly decide where to start and just cross rolls out. I've also done all the rolling myself, though that's my least favorite more work for me, plus my players have a strong luck superstition and they like making their own rolls.

Finally and this is my favorite though one of my players has sworn to "die like a dog in the street" before he lets me do it (if I cared enough I still would). Have the players roll (in general a person knows how well they did at a certain task) then I roll if I roll a 1 then the roll is reversed a 20 becomes a 1 a 1 becomes a 20 etc.

Basically what I do right now is let everyone make their own rolls, because I forget or am too lazy to do the other stuff.

 

[Gromm]

Personally I go with anything the players don't know about. Rarely I'll even make saves if theres no way they'd know about it (like a Succubi kiss or disease).

Otherwise, as mentioned, above the DMG has a good list.

 

[Number47]

I let players make dang near all rolls for themselves. However, I am a little sneaky about it. I'll have everyone in the group roll a Spot check and mark down the results for me to use when it is actually required. If you have several of these ahead of time, before they enter the dungeon, they won't know they're in danger until too late. Also, I changed how elves auto-search for secret doors. I made into an equivalent of a "take-10". They automatically find doors below that DC, they never "auto-find" door above that DC.

 

[TheMentat]

I agree that it is definitely a very good idea to roll yourself, especially if you dont play with the greatest of roleplayers
sense motive is a MUST
if they know that they rolled a '1' then they know that whatever they think is bs, and vice versa
Gather Information is also nice IMO to roll secretly, you never know what kind of stuff you can pick up in a bar
What you might want to do if your players have that superstitious attachment to their own rolling is reverse the rolls everyonce in a while
decide before hand so that if they roll a 19 it is actually a 2 or if they roll a 5, it is actually a 16