Seeking advice using illusions effectively

[johnsemlak]

I'm playing my first ever Illusionist. I'm also using the Gnome Illusionist substitution levels found in 'Races of Stone'. I'm not very familiar with effective Illusion use, particularly in combat, and am looking for some advice.

The Gnome Illusionist in Races of Stone is able to get several key illusion spells a level early (silent image thru persistent image). I've learned all of those. What's the best combat application of these spells? I've been creating illusions of various aggresive creatures (we have a druid with an animal companion, so I often create another identical creature; should I be creating even more powerful creatures?).

Any other general advice?

 

[Henrix]

During my short stint playing an illusionist I did a lot of fake summoned monsters*, but also illusionary terrain to block the opponents view of my friends, illusions of my friends in other places to split the opposition (sometimes just the sound of them was enough, I once had a couple of ogres racing back and forth across a glade chasing what they thought was the party).

The illusion of a wall breaking down and a monster entering is also distracting.

Good effect could often be had when cooperating with the rogue in the party to set up situations where he could sneak attack.

Hiding the rest of the party and creating illusions of them can sometimes help.

Don't forget the simpler spells, dancing lights accompanied by ghost sound can make the enemies think reinforcements are on their way through the forest at night.

* Especially if combined with real summoned monsters, of your own or anothers.

 

[Thanee]

Keep in mind (learn) at what point your targets get to make their save and at what point they see through what type of illusion automatically. Use your illusions in a way to minimize these. That's the key to successful illusion use. Also make sure to be on the same level as your DM about what "if interacted with" means.

Another very important factor is, that your illusions can be detected by opposing spellcasters DURING your spellcasting, by making a Spellcraft check against the spell being cast. Be sure to avoid this (there are plenty methods, like casting out of sight, using Still/Silent Spell, Invisibility, and so on).

This part of the SRD is most important:

Illusion spells deceive the senses or minds of others. They cause people to see things that are not there, not see things that are there, hear phantom noises, or remember things that never happened.

Figment: A figment spell creates a false sensation. Those who perceive the figment perceive the same thing, not their own slightly different versions of the figment. (It is not a personalized mental impression.) Figments cannot make something seem to be something else. A figment that includes audible effects cannot duplicate intelligible speech unless the spell description specifically says it can. If intelligible speech is possible, it must be in a language you can speak. If you try to duplicate a language you cannot speak, the image produces gibberish. Likewise, you cannot make a visual copy of something unless you know what it looks like.

Because figments and glamers (see below) are unreal, they cannot produce real effects the way that other types of illusions can. They cannot cause damage to objects or creatures, support weight, provide nutrition, or provide protection from the elements. Consequently, these spells are useful for confounding or delaying foes, but useless for attacking them directly.

A figment’s AC is equal to 10 + its size modifier.

Glamer: A glamer spell changes a subject’s sensory qualities, making it look, feel, taste, smell, or sound like something else, or even seem to disappear.

Pattern: Like a figment, a pattern spell creates an image that others can see, but a pattern also affects the minds of those who see it or are caught in it. All patterns are mind-affecting spells.

Phantasm: A phantasm spell creates a mental image that usually only the caster and the subject (or subjects) of the spell can perceive. This impression is totally in the minds of the subjects. It is a personalized mental impression. (It’s all in their heads and not a fake picture or something that they actually see.) Third parties viewing or studying the scene don’t notice the phantasm. All phantasms are mind-affecting spells.

Shadow: A shadow spell creates something that is partially real from extradimensional energy. Such illusions can have real effects. Damage dealt by a shadow illusion is real.

Saving Throws and Illusions (Disbelief): Creatures encountering an illusion usually do not receive saving throws to recognize it as illusory until they study it carefully or interact with it in some fashion.

A successful saving throw against an illusion reveals it to be false, but a figment or phantasm remains as a translucent outline.

A failed saving throw indicates that a character fails to notice something is amiss. A character faced with proof that an illusion isn’t real needs no saving throw. If any viewer successfully disbelieves an illusion and communicates this fact to others, each such viewer gains a saving throw with a +4 bonus.

For example, a figment (i.e. Major Image) isn't very well-suited to be sent into melee, since it will quickly be identified as an illusion.

However, the same figment appearing at a distance and "casting spells with no visible component" could make people nervous a lot.

An invisible wall will keep opponents away as long as they do not try to break through. Use THEIR knowledge against them... "That's a Wall of Force we cannot get through, let's find another way!" Damn good use for a 1st level spell (Silent Image) against a group of opponents led by a spellcaster (Blade Barrier might work in a similar way and should even scream "don't touch me!" to non-spellcasters). Or make a bridge over a chasm you just crossed and hope they follow you quickly.

One of the best in combat uses of Silent Image is semitranslucent cover (mimicking a Fog Cloud for example).
You can see through, your opponents cannot!


Hope this helps.

Bye
Thanee

 

[0-hr]

Just to clarify on the illusionary fog, you cast it and tell your folks (beforehand) that it is fake. Hopefully then, they can see through it. The bad guys, failing their save, cannot.

My main bit of advice is just to be clear on what you can create. Silent Image says:

This spell creates the visual illusion of an object, creature, or force, as visualized by you.

"A creature breaking though a wall" sounds like two fake objects: a creature and a breaking wall. What does your DM think? I've seen a lot of people use this spell to create something like "a group of orcs" or a "duplicate of our party" and both of those are clearly beyond the scope of the spell (being more than one creature).

I'm sure you don't want to hear about limitations on your abilities, but it is certainly better to understand them now rather than when your life depends on it. Make sure you and the DM are on the same page.

But in general, good illusions are one that make a dramatic impact but cannot be easily interacted with (like a dragon swooping in from afar).

 

[Nail]

The primary problem, IMO, is that most ideas for illusions must be interacted with to be effective. And once that interaction happens...you're almost always hosed.

A "dragon swooping in" might be effective.....for a round or so. The dragon can't close for combat obviously, as once it does the victims will have irrefutable proof the illusion is fake. (Figmentary claws and fangs cannot cause damage!)

I'd really love to see some good ideas, that will work in more than just specialized settings. I've only seen 2. Ever.

Prove me wrong.

 

[johnsemlak]

Thanks for the advice so far guys, especially thanee.

One idea, what if I create an illusionary archer who fires arrows at opponents. If he always misses, would that be 'interaction? Also, if the opponents attack the illusion with missile weapons, whould they actually role attack roles (if so, how) and what would the result of a sucessful hit be (proof that the illustion is fake?)?

 

[Thanee]

The primary problem, IMO, is that most ideas for illusions must be interacted with to be effective. And once that interaction happens...you're almost always hosed.

Well, that's the ambiguity of "interacting with" brought to bear here.

IMHO simply seeing the illusion is not interaction. Interaction is, if you can see how the illusion reacts to a situation (like firing arrows at it, you'll quickly notice, that it does not dodge properly).

About AC, I would give it an AC of 10 + size modifier + range and vision modifiers as appropriate (probably also cover and such).

I'd really love to see some good ideas, that will work in more than just specialized settings. I've only seen 2. Ever.

Well, most illusions are highly improvisational and only useful in specialized settings. You need to come up with ideas tailored for the situation, tho there are some ideas you can generally use, like the illusionary cover, or illusionary diversions. The illusionary "cavalery" might turn a tight combat into a victory, making the opponents flee from the "overwhelming reinforcements".

Bye
Thanee

 

[monboesen]

As an illusionist you depend solely on the dm's mindset and willingness to let opponents respond accordingly to your illusions.

If, for instance, your party is fighting a bunch of orcs and you use the above mentioned monster breaking through wall illusion (perhaps being a roaring Umber Hulk), there are roughly two kinds of dm's. Those that will let the orcs carry on fighting, ignoring the threatening monster. And those that might let some of the orcs back away, let others go on the defensive and not attack due to the surprise and let those close to the illusionary monster flee.

If your dm belong to the first category make another character. It will only bring dissapointment to play an illusionist.

As for concrete advice its more or less already covered. The advice of making illusions of stuff that people will not touch/interact with or not find suspecious is, imo, the most important. An illusionist is at his best with some time to prepare the battlefield to his advantage.

 

[Shallown]

The most important part is the agreement between player and GM about what interaction with an illusionis and how the GM will handle them.

After that another inmportant step , to me, is believability. It is important to think about what is reasonably believable. Think from the bad guys side about what would appear or happen that they would expect. The best of illusions is giving people what they expect. This is why knowing your enemy and the situation is important.

Also keep in mind illusions can also be used against your party in a clever way. If one of the party members is down or in danger of being swarmed by reinforcements, make an illusion of a few more bad guys and make it appear they are being dealt with and perhaps give them a few minutes to catch their breath.

Also illusions can be useful for controlling terrain. reach in your pouch pull out some "magic" sand and throw it on the ground while casting an illusion of a spiked pit in front of you. In lots of cases this would keep the ogre from rushing you and crushing you to a pulp. It might also protect other party members if placed right. Now the temptation is making a huge pit and such but keep it believable by just making it 10 X 10. Don't over do it.

Hope this helps

later

 

[Nail]

The most important part is the agreement between player and GM about what interaction with an illusionis and how the GM will handle them.

Absolutely.

Also illusions can be useful for controlling terrain. reach in your pouch pull out some "magic" sand and throw it on the ground while casting an illusion of a spiked pit in front of you.

Here's the problem: how is that believable? What spell or common magic item does that effect duplicate? Put another way: how many other magic-using opponents have been able to spontaneously create 10' x 10' spiked pits?

For an ogre....sure, you might be able to get away with that. But for many opponents, who are steeped in the magic-using world that is D&D....they're going to have some sense of what's possible, and what's not.

A wall, or fog, or a patch of entangling ground....yup, that's possible. A huge spiked chasm, 30 feet wide? ...uhh, what level spell caster is that, again?

I think a reasonable approximation of what an intelligent opponent can believe is what you (the DM) could turn around and use on the players, and fool them into believing it. ...And, just as importantly, what illusion would cause the players to lose actions dealing with the supposed threat or illusory problem.

Precious few of those set-ups, I think.