Seeking advice using illusions effectively

[Magus Coeruleus]

As a DM, I'm trying to get a grip on how to run illusions. It seems to me that far too many people want to run them (even silent image) like Wish but with a will-save. Things like "I cast an illusion of a metal cage with sharp pointy spikes covered with dripping poison appearing around the enemy. He doesn't get a save unless he touches it because he hasn't interacted with it and he's not going to touch it because it looks like poison. Ha ha ha." Alternatively, "the ground starts to shake and a massive gaping pit with lava at the bottom opens up here, here, and here." (Another SILENT IMAGE !?!? spell I've seen tried).

Well, the second one is just plain ridiculous since it involves vibration, sound, heat, etc. I don't think the first one is necessarily abusive, however. One of Skip Williams suggestions in a Wizards site article is that if a creature spends a full round studying an illusion from a within a reasonable distance, this should count as "interaction." In other words, just seeing an illusion doesn't allow a save, but rather than physically interact with it a creature could stop and look closely for a round and that would count as well. Anyway, in this cage situation if we're talking about a 1st level spell (Silent Image) the caster has to maintain concentration to keep the cage up. The creature can either look closely to get a save, or perhaps is likely to try and hit the cage with a weapon or other object to see how difficult/easy it might be to break out, at which point it would get a save. This save, of course, is only DC 11+abilitymod. I think this is reasonable, all things considered, and that an illusion of a cage surrounding an enemy is a good strategy in some cases.

What I would like to see is an article with some suggested guidelines for bonuses and penalties to the save kind of like the modifiers to a bluff check. Perhaps making an illusion of something very simple but believable should have a harder save whereas pushing it to the max (complex changes in the illusion that require a lot of concentration) should make the save easier, or require a concentration check to keep up the high-detailed charade.

 

[johnsemlak]

Wow, some interesting discussion here.

I think of of hte problems here is that some DMs are the sort that will have NPCs react to illusions and other magic only in ways that are specifically stated in the rules. And since the rules don't specifiy anything (they can't for practical reasons obviously) I may not get the desired effects of my illusions.

One piece of advice I got was to stick to illusions with a speficially stated effect (e.g. Blur, giving %20 percent miss chance). The slight problem with my character is that the benefit I get with the Gnome substitution levels is better access to exactly the illusion spells with don't have any spefically stated effect.

 

[Thanee]

Well, it's the question how your DM sees it, not anyone else.

Bye
Thanee

 

[UniversalMonster]

Illusions are good for covering escapes or for dividing the enemy.

Here's my ideas:

[*]Critters: illusionary monsters can do one of two things- intimidate foes or draw fire. Both are risky strategies, but they both sometimes work.
- Intimidators: Beholders, demons, etc. are good. They can move around the battlefield and look menacing. Low-grade opponents should hopefully avoid things like this and run. I'm more of a GM than a player, but one way I'd rule this tactic is to allow the illusionist to make intimidate checks with a +2 (up to +4) illusion bonus to the check.
- Drawing Fire: Anything that fails to intimidate will be drawing fire, so feel free to be creative. I like ghostly figures and constructs myself when I'm really trying to draw fire.

[*] Walls and obstructions: illusionary walls of stone, iron, ice, prismatic shifting colors.. can sometimes seal off an escape route. So can patches of writihing shadowy black tentacles, or areas covered in illusionary webs. If your'e up to the Major image spell, you can use walls of fire or crackling electricity. The idea is to conceal or discourage interaction, but by the time anyone egts close enough to determine that he can feel heat from the wall of fire- he's already interacted with it. So having a high saving throw DC would be good as always. The best concealment is just whatever is already in the area- a simple dungeon wall or stand of trees.

[*] Window Dressing: I use this when I'm GMing villians, sometimes. It's not especially useful so much as it is "cool" to change the appearance of a location to something weird or disturbing. Change the battlefield to look like a gigantic chessboard with melting clocks or an arena with spiked walls or something.

[*] Distraction. Use your IC knowledge. Confront an NPC with an illusionary figment of one of his previous victims or a family member. Yeah, yeah, he gets a saving throw. Still, sometimes it will throw people off for a round or two, even after the illusion cancels.

[*]Control the Enemy Formation:
Cover the floor in illusionary green slime, randomly surfacing buzz-saws, caltrops, or some other hazard and leave an easy path through it that serves your purposes. A single file path, or perhaps one that takes the enemy through someones threatened area, or within bull-rush range of a fighter and another (real) hazard.

[*] Just Being Cool: A dragon in a recent game was explaining where a certain island was. He created an illusionary 3-d map that hovered in mid air as he was explaining it. This could sor t of thing could be used in a lot of ways- team briefings, team huddle strategy sessions, etc. An illusionist can be like the party VCR or instant replay guy, creating a tactical map for everyone to look at while the fighter draws on it like John Madden.

 

[Zen]

Wouldn't illusonary critters, properly placed, also provide flanking bonuses for the caster's allies? An ogre that hasn't hit you yet is still an ogre. At least until the will save is made.

 

[Lamoni]

Wouldn't illusonary critters, properly placed, also provide flanking bonuses for the caster's allies? An ogre that hasn't hit you yet is still an ogre. At least until the will save is made.

The illusionary ogre would gain a flanking bonus, but wouldn't grant one unless it actually threatened the square... so illusions can't help with flanking. Sorry.

I have a question about major image and creatures with nauseating stenches, or creatures made of fire which would do heat damage. Since major image includes sound, smell, and thermal illusions... does that mean someone could become nauseated or sickened from an illusion?

 

[Henrix]

The illusionary ogre would gain a flanking bonus, but wouldn't grant one unless it actually threatened the square... so illusions can't help with flanking. Sorry.

I'd disagree. A percieved threat would be as good as a real threat for flanking.
There is nothing about this in the rules, but it is how I'd rule it when GMing.

 

[Someone]

Illusions should be rather effective on mindless opponents, like vermin and golems, who don´t learn and will be fooled once and again by the same trick.

For more intelligent opponents, play illusions within illusions.

For example, you are invisible, then cast an illusion of yourself casting a illusion spell, then the real you appear (as if you were the figment) and cast something, perhaps a spell like transmute rock to mud or wall of fire. It´s likely that any enemy spellcaster think you and the real spell are the illusions, waste a round on the fake you, and walk like an idiot on the real spell. Or make the illusion of the party coming out of a translucent wall. Chances are that the enemies will think they are the real ones, doing the trick of hiding behind a illusory wall, and be fooled. While you are invisible, use the higher level illusion spells (like programmed image) to make a copy of yourself casting illusions, while the real you (invisible) cast Summon Monster N. Maybe they think they really are illusions, and ignore the monsters; if they learn from their errors, start casting illusions of summoned monsters.

Then you can start thinking on illusions within illusions within illusions...

 

[Particle_Man]

While you are invisible, use the higher level illusion spells (like programmed image) to make a copy of yourself casting illusions, while the real you (invisible) cast Summon Monster N.

The last doesn't work with programmed image, since a) programmed image, like mirror image, duplicate you as you are. If you are invisible, so is it, and b) programmed image requires line of sight. If it is invisible, you can't see it and it winks out (I suppose, see invisible might provide a loophole here...).

 

[johnsemlak]

Well, it's the question how your DM sees it, not anyone else.

Bye
Thanee

Oh, I'm not arguing that. I agree totally actually.

I guess it's just comes down to the fact that illusions seem to be an area where a large amount of DM discretion is necessary for gameplay.