Seeking reviews or comparisons of: Fantasy Grounds, kLoOge.Werks and Screenmonkey

[artmc]

Hello,

I'm looking at using one of these 3 apps to allow long distance gaming between a group of my friends.

Mostly I am looking for differences/advantages/disadvantages. Along with first hand usage stories.

If for instance I say decide on kLoOge.Werks, I will buy the Multi client license and the Master package as well.


So, basically any info that you can suggest will be off use. I have read several threads here on this,
and still haven't made a decision as of yet.

 

[msd]

I love Fantasy Grounds...huge fan.

Now for the disclaimer. I haven't really tried the others so you'll have to put my comments through the proper filter.

A random list of things that I really like:

• A really great version 1 of the product. Compared to other "version 1" RPG products, this is great which instills a lot of confidence that this will be around for a while
• In the same vein, the developers are very accessible on their boards...features which I have personally asked for have been implemented in patches and I am not close to alone in that regard. The devs are first and foremost players and are looking for player feedback.
• Very extensible system. The system is all XML based so basically any changes you might want to make are pretty easily made
• Great effort at making you feel like you are "around the table" - the dice rolling is awesome, the sound of the dice is right on, and the general look of the app put you right there
• Just an overall very simple and easy, intuitive interface - learning the app couldn't be easier

Some negatives (just to be balanced)

• It is a good version 1, but it is still a version 1 - there are sometimes unexplained application crashes. Nothing drastic, but I don't want to suggest that it doesn't happen
• No voice or sound - for me this is no big as we use Teamspeak/Ventrilo/Skype, etc. but some people are bothered by this
• Editing and entry of data is not always as easy as it could be - this mainly impacts the DM and is something that is definitely being addressed in an upcoming version
• Compatibility with other apps - again, the entire system is XML based and at present, for instance, the format of a character file is a basically proprietary XML structure. The community has asked the developers to at least allow interaction with things like e-tools so that you can generate that NPC and boom...he's in FG. Not quite there yet but supposed to be coming soon.
• Lack of documentation about the workings of the system under the hood. Don't like d20? Want to somehow customize the character sheet or NPC sheet to add some piece of data? You can do all this and its all a matter of modifying XML definition files but there is no real documentation as of yet and you have to rely on the community knowledge of the forums and the occasional posts by the developers pointing you in the right direction. This too is supposedly being addressed.

Two other things.

First, and despite by sig , in the spirit of making a truly informed choice you should also check out http://www.ghostorb.com - they also have a new product in this space and are worthy of being on your list.

Second, while I have tried to be objective in this post, I am definitely a partisan player in this one and would love to win more players to the FG side of the fence. FG has a freely downloadable demo. I would love for you and your players to download the demo and give you a cook's tour (i.e. you would connect for a demo session and we could go through the functionality together). PM me here if interested.

Hope that helps!

 

[2WS-Steve]

I've purchased all three and am torn between Fantasy Grounds and Klooge.

Fantasy Grounds has been far more stable for me, and doesn't run in clunky Java. Also, I find myself oddly drawn to the little gimmick of actually rolling the dice -- it's actually fun to do on screen.

However, Klooge has significantly better shared map features. Very easy to zoom in or out, and I can simply scan in my own images, then scale them as I desire, for use as miniatures. Unfortunately, it's also been unplay-ably unstable for me in the past, but the very recent updates seem to work.

I suspect that FG will improve it's map stuff, whereas Klooge will not dump its Java clunkiness, and thus FG might move into a clear winner category for me.

Screen Monkey has the whole, clients connect using regular web software thing -- but it was pretty slow and the interface makes it hard to run a game.

Ghost Orb looks very interesting, but I figured I'd wait until it's out of beta to try it out.

 

[msd]

However, Klooge has significantly better shared map features. Very easy to zoom in or out

For what it's worth, I believe this is totally on their radar. I know that I and a large number of other people have consistently mentioned this as one of the things that would be really nice to have in a future release...

 

[azhrei_fje]

The Klooge demo would not allow me to test certain features (like a huge JPEG image to see how it performed) and my requests to the kloogers (ie. authors) went unanswered.

Granted that was only a single attempt (well, two really) it turned me off from a customer support point-of-view.

 

[DMFTodd]

Comparison

I tried ScreenMonkey, Fantasy Grounds, and Klooge about 6 months ago, went with klooge.

ScreeenMonkey: Can't remeber any specifics. It wasn't as pretty as Fantasy Grounds nor as capable as Klooge.

GhostOrb: DM + every player pays about $5/month. 6 player game is $30/month, $360 for a year. No thanks.

Comparing klooge and FantasyGrounds (this compares how they were 6 months ago, things have changed, FantasyGrounders can correct me):

The map: Klooge has a real map and knows about distances. Klooge knows that the orc is 120 feet away, can tell you the correct size for laying down a web, etc. THis is really cool, you can actually play on a map with a large scale - something you can't really do on a battlemap. FantasyGrounds, the map is basically a dumb picture with no features.

Map Zoom: Klooge can zoom a map. Scan in some big dungeon from Dungeon magazine and play right on that. You can zoom in and out on the map to see what is going on. No zoom in FG. You're going to have to manually create a lot of maps.

Tokens: Klooge can use any scanned in picture as a token. FantasyGrounds has little gold balls you drop on a map (I think they may have fixed that).

Token Size: Since klooge has distance on a map, it can scale a token to the right size. FantasyGrounds, with no map scale, can't scale a token. A dragon is the same size as a goblin.

Dice Rolling: FG has this really pretty dice roller but it's dumber than dumb. To roll an attack, enter a modifier in the attack box, pick up the 20-sider, drop it. Claw, claw, bite? Do it again. Ooops, change that modifier for the bite. Now change the modifier to roll the damage. Running a battle with different creatures? Hope you can remember all of those modifiers because you'll be putting them in again and again (there are some hot keys that could speed this up somewhat). FG combat is going to be really, really slow. In Klooge, you can setup a monster/NPC in advance. To make an attack roll, you simply click the attack. It's very fast.

Did I Hit?: FG doesn't have targeting. Did the attack hit? How much damage was rolled? Better pay close attention because you have to manually apply that damage. Klooge has targeting, has AC in the program, so when you make an attack roll it can tell you if you hit or missed (and it is easily overridden when need be). Damage is then assigned directly to the target and the dm can apply it with a click.

In short, I think FG has a really pretty face but it's all pretty face no brains. Klooge has way more features, IMPORTANT features but it's not the prettiest thing around. I've been running a weekly klooge game for about 6 months now. It really works. I've dropped my face to face game and just play with klooge.

 

[2WS-Steve]

In defense of Fantasy Grounds, the dice there do the same thing as the dice in my cup -- and they've worked good for me for about 25 years.

Sometimes I find overly-automated features a hassle since they require too much prep time and aren't as friendly for on-the-fly scenarios. That said, there's no reason a program can't work well with both.

As it is, FG doesn't have as good a setup for programmed monsters. But in FG it's easy to pick up the dice with the mouse, make a small adjustment with the mouse wheel, then roll using the mouse -- no typing out functions required.

I'd prefer it if companies could just merge their best features -- but I guess that ain't gonna happen.

 

[msd]

In defense of Fantasy Grounds, the dice there do the same thing as the dice in my cup -- and they've worked good for me for about 25 years.

I tend to agree. I get the sense from monitoring the boards over there (and the devs posts in particular) that they were almost targeting a low-tech feel with a high-tech tool. I think the feeling they were trying to capture was really that around-the-table feeling first and foremost. Automation is there and they have heard the call for more, but I don't think it was their first thought.

Just my thoughts. Could easily be wrong

-Matt

 

[bloodydrake]

I would suggest everyone watch the Klooge tutorial Videos they do give a great overview of some excellent features.
http://www.kloogeinc.com/tutorials.html

KloogeWerks is by far the most feature rich application out there for simulating a tabletop experience via a pc.It is very powerful in what you can do and can really speed up play and automate many teadious things for you,however it does take abit of time to figure it all out.Once you do tho its fantastic.

To really benefit from all those features does take some prep time for your DM but alot of that stuff is a one time thing.
For example Once youve created a Klooge icon for a hill giant you never have to create one again you simple import it into any adventure your using and it will be setup with a graphic token and a full character sheet with abilities attacks ect all there.
As well the community has been creating many player made aids that can be used by anyone.
One such feature we've just started using is the effects feature. Using the downloaded Master effects you can with the click of a mouse applie just about any effect to an npc or player that has a built in duration condition that counts down as your rounds go by in combat.

Klooge is a java based application and its defiantely a strength and weakness.
The benifit is its truly multiplatform so you can use klooge on window,macs,linux ect.

I think the one area that Klooge needs to focus on is where fantasy grounds has it beat..that is spit and polish.You can't deny the fact that Klooge feels like an office app in its interface where as FG looks really pretty and has a much nicer looking interface.

I have an idea on how klooge and address this but i'm not sure if it will be possible.Time will tell.

Oh and yes klooge can support really large jpg maps the users machines is the limiting factor if you want to use maps that are 2500x3500 that expect to need at least 512mb of ram dedicated to the program. If you break up your maps into sections that are 1200x1200 ish you can get away with 256mb dedicated.

 

[DMFTodd]

Klooge Vs. FG

Forgot one other thing: FG only runs on Windows. Klooge runs on Windows, Mac, Linux.