D&D 3E/3.5 [semi-OT] [semi-3.5] What is "Cold Iron?"
- Thread starter MerakSpielman
- Start date
G'day
I don't want anyone to get the impression that I think that WotC have to use 'cold iron' to mean anything in particular, or even nothing in especial. They are perfectly free to declare, for example, that they mean iron that has been refined, smelted, and shaped using Fabricate in the absence of significant heat--or anything else, really. All I am saying is that until they tell us otherwise, the only thing we have to go on is what the phrase means in established usage.
Suppose, for example, that we read references to a monster called a 'poptepet': that might be absolutely anything, because the word has no established meaning. But if we hear of a 'thylacine' it'd be just silly to assume that it could fly. The word has a meaning in established usage.
So the question becomes this "Does the phrase 'cold iron' have a meaning in established usage?' None is listed in a dictionary that I have consulted (yet, though I have hopes of the OED and Brewster's). None is mentioned in any work on metallurgy or history of industrial processes that I have ever read (but I am not an expert in either field).
But I have certainly heard the term bandied about in books on folklore and in fantasy stories. Can we work out what those writers meant?
Only one of those authors (Kipling) is prominent enough to make it into a book of quotations. In the poem cited, 'cold iron' refers to weapons and possibly armour made of iron and steel. In other works inspired by the history and folklore of the region in Sussex where he settled, Kipling uses the term for ordinary iron items such as nails, a cast-iron bathtub, a knife, and a slave-collar.
I vaguely recollect reading a collection of English and Irish folk stories (collected, I think, by Roger Lancelyn Green) in which characters were saved or protected from fairy magic by, for example, chancing to touch some nails they had in their pocket. I can't remember whether the phrase 'cold iron' was used, but that is certainly some suggestion that ordinary everday iron is inimical to fairies in those beliefs. And besides, that isn't enough of a reference for anyone to check (and given the floods of contradiction and extraordinary claims that are flying about in this thread, people should certainly be checking everyone's references).
Does anyone have a collection of European folk stories indexed by theme? We ought certainly to be able to determine whether in folklore it was ordinary iron or something special that crippled elves, fairies, and magic.
We have to be a little more careful about considering what fantasy writers meant. On one hand, many of them are consciously innovating, so the magical situation in their works is deliberately different from the established. But on the other hand, even when they innovate, their innovations can be influential, and other people will take up the meanings that they established. So it would be worthwhile if anyone has a fantasy novel to had in which 'cold iron' is specifically mentioned, in which something or other makes it clear what the author meant by the term, would cite it. For instance, if anyone has a copy of Poul Anderson's The Broken Sword to hand, it would be very useful if they could check whether the elves and trolls in that were unable to handle any iron at all or only special iron of some sort.
I'm off to the library to check Brewster's.
Regards,
Agback
I don't want anyone to get the impression that I think that WotC have to use 'cold iron' to mean anything in particular, or even nothing in especial. They are perfectly free to declare, for example, that they mean iron that has been refined, smelted, and shaped using Fabricate in the absence of significant heat--or anything else, really. All I am saying is that until they tell us otherwise, the only thing we have to go on is what the phrase means in established usage.
Suppose, for example, that we read references to a monster called a 'poptepet': that might be absolutely anything, because the word has no established meaning. But if we hear of a 'thylacine' it'd be just silly to assume that it could fly. The word has a meaning in established usage.
So the question becomes this "Does the phrase 'cold iron' have a meaning in established usage?' None is listed in a dictionary that I have consulted (yet, though I have hopes of the OED and Brewster's). None is mentioned in any work on metallurgy or history of industrial processes that I have ever read (but I am not an expert in either field).
But I have certainly heard the term bandied about in books on folklore and in fantasy stories. Can we work out what those writers meant?
Only one of those authors (Kipling) is prominent enough to make it into a book of quotations. In the poem cited, 'cold iron' refers to weapons and possibly armour made of iron and steel. In other works inspired by the history and folklore of the region in Sussex where he settled, Kipling uses the term for ordinary iron items such as nails, a cast-iron bathtub, a knife, and a slave-collar.
I vaguely recollect reading a collection of English and Irish folk stories (collected, I think, by Roger Lancelyn Green) in which characters were saved or protected from fairy magic by, for example, chancing to touch some nails they had in their pocket. I can't remember whether the phrase 'cold iron' was used, but that is certainly some suggestion that ordinary everday iron is inimical to fairies in those beliefs. And besides, that isn't enough of a reference for anyone to check (and given the floods of contradiction and extraordinary claims that are flying about in this thread, people should certainly be checking everyone's references).
Does anyone have a collection of European folk stories indexed by theme? We ought certainly to be able to determine whether in folklore it was ordinary iron or something special that crippled elves, fairies, and magic.
We have to be a little more careful about considering what fantasy writers meant. On one hand, many of them are consciously innovating, so the magical situation in their works is deliberately different from the established. But on the other hand, even when they innovate, their innovations can be influential, and other people will take up the meanings that they established. So it would be worthwhile if anyone has a fantasy novel to had in which 'cold iron' is specifically mentioned, in which something or other makes it clear what the author meant by the term, would cite it. For instance, if anyone has a copy of Poul Anderson's The Broken Sword to hand, it would be very useful if they could check whether the elves and trolls in that were unable to handle any iron at all or only special iron of some sort.
I'm off to the library to check Brewster's.
Regards,
Agback
Merlion
First Post
well my personal assumption is this. since the concept of iron(some times being poeticaly/colourfuly being refered to as "cold" iron) being harmful to fey type beings(and some times some other supernatural beings) comes from actual folklore and all people way back when in the real world has was your basic iron, I'm assuming that thats what its going to be. ordinary iron colourfuly refered to as "cold". if theirs any extra cost involved it will be a custom order cost simply because in most campaigns steel exists and is superior to iron and so most weaponsmiths etc dont bother making weapons out of iron anymore. however their might not even be that since they are probably still making other things out of plain iron so the stuff is still around.
My little two cents
My little two cents
ZanathKariashi
First Post
Cold Iron IS Meteorite Iron. It's stronger then normal iron due to carbon being naturally fused into it during descent, impact and tectonic pressure, and the nickel in the alloy gives it resistance to corrosion, this is why weapons and tools made of meteor iron continued to seem magical even smelting progressed enough to process iron ore, but was still insufficient to make true steel. It's weaker then modern steel, but potentially as strong as early Medieval steel.
In order to be considered Cold Iron, something has to be iron extracted from a meteorite, and then cold forged into whatever shape you're looking for. Smelting it or even heat forging it can potentially ruin it's molecular structure and it becomes either normal iron, or possibly steel if more carbon is added.
Cold Iron is THOUGHT to be extracted from deep within the earth due to the fact that large meteorites would burying themselves up further into the earth, then smaller meteorites would and would appear to be large veins of cold iron.
In order to be considered Cold Iron, something has to be iron extracted from a meteorite, and then cold forged into whatever shape you're looking for. Smelting it or even heat forging it can potentially ruin it's molecular structure and it becomes either normal iron, or possibly steel if more carbon is added.
Cold Iron is THOUGHT to be extracted from deep within the earth due to the fact that large meteorites would burying themselves up further into the earth, then smaller meteorites would and would appear to be large veins of cold iron.
