D&D 3E/3.5 [semi-OT] [semi-3.5] What is "Cold Iron?"

There's very little sense in us all getting heated up over this issue.


Yes, I meant that just like it sounded. :)



And while I perfectly understand what "Cold Iron" is in a realistic sense, who is to say that there can't be iron forged without using heat in the Dungeons and Dragons game???

As someone pointed out, Fabricate spells, wish-type magics, and many other means exist to get an iron weapon without a single fire from a forge, or a single hammer-blow.

Until WotC comes out with what they mean, it's just as easy to assume what works best for your individual game, depending on how rare you feel it needs to be.
 

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green slime said:
For example, give me more examples of references to Cold Iron, OTHER than that oft refered to poem.

Okay. For one, there was a character in the British TV comedy Dad's Army, who had been a sergeant in some colonial war, who always said things like "the Fuzzy-Wuzzies don't like cold steel, they don't like it up 'em" whenever anyone mentioned a bayonet. This is presumably a caricarture of retired British NCOs. (As it happens, the Australians and New Zealanders are much more recent enthusiasts of the bayonet than the British, but my sergeant never once mentioned 'cold steel').

In his monumental history of The Civil War, Shelby Foote quoted a report by a British observer who ignorantly criticised American cavalry practice in terms like this (I am quoting from memory): "The cavalry of both sides rides up to half pistol-shot and there, at a range where experience has shown that only a charge pressed home hard with cold steel is capable of effecting a result, they stop, exchange desultory fire with pistols, and withdraw."

Apart from other occurrences in Kipling (in the story cycles Puck of Pook's Hill and Rewards and Fairies) the phrase is not one I have come across very often. It isn't listed in my Webster's dictionary or any of my materials science references, it isn't mentioned in the Encyclopaedia Britannica, and I have never come across it in decades of casual reading about the history of metallurgy or the history of technology. If it were a metallurgical technicality, I would expect to have run across it, or that one of the proponents of this view would have been able to cite a reference. As it is, it seems that there is more imagination than knowledge behind those statements.

If it were not for the Kipling (in which ordinary nails, boot-nails, a slave-collar, a cast-iron bathtub, and other everyday ferrous things frustrate fairy magic because they are 'cold iron') I might be persuaded to the view that 'cold' iron specifically referred to iron and steel made into weapons. That is what stereotypal British military types mean by the phrase. Fantasy writers probably picked up the term either from Kipling or from the same sources in folklore that he drew on. (For example the belief that an iron horse-shoe over the door scares away demons because the Devil was once beaten up by a blacksmith.)

I remain ready to be convinced that 'cold iron' is something special if someone can cite a reputable dictionary, encyclopaedia, or text-book. But as things stand it looks to me like 'hollow ships', 'noisy dogs', 'the fishy sea', etc.: not even as special as 'hot lead'.

Regards,


Agback
 

I suspect that WotC probably will say that "cold iron" just refers to any old metal-headed or bladed weapon -- swords, arrows, spears, etc. That's as opposed to wooden ones like staffs or clubs, or natural weapons (claws, bites, etc). IIRC the only things with a special vulnerability to cold iron are fey, and in 3E, most fey don't have DR to start with.
 
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So Agback and Hong, are you suggesting that "cold iron" in the DnD game is nothing more than just "iron". Because that is what Kipling was refering to in a poem? Why would WotC call the material "cold iron" if it was "mere" iron?

"Cold steel" is a poetic reference to steel that is well known, I'll agree, but I'd not have it limited to weapons, but to all steel that is touched, or handled.

The question hasn't been whether it is a special substance in RL or not, but rather, speculation as to what it is in DnD 3.5. Some people came up with some very imaginative descriptions of what it could be. This was great.

Others came along and said it didn't exist in RL, and implied that it shouldn't exist in the game.

My points, which I have tried to communicate across the digital divide, but with only some success are:
a) I really don't care about whether it exists in RL or not.
b) I'd be interested in more references from fictional literature, myth or folk lore (thanks for those further references, Agback).
c) After someone claimed that it was already a term that existed, I spent some time trying to locate it, and could only come up ZERO metallurgical references.
d) As a consequence of the above, I regard it as an undefined substance both in RL and DnD 3e. (unless we are talking poetically)
e) thus there is room for a "Cold Iron" definition. Whether it is "mere" iron, and subject to rust, and is magnetic, remains to be defined by WotC. Or yourself. Whatever.
g) I truly despise when someone is imaginative and creative and spends the time writing to share their thoughts on this subject, only to be told "RL doesn't work this way". Thank you, we know that. Move along.

And as a final statment to those reality/name freaks: Look up Sea Lion in the monster manual. Doesn't look like any Sea Lions I've seen in RL...
 

green slime said:
So Agback and Hong, are you suggesting that "cold iron" in the DnD game is nothing more than just "iron". Because that is what Kipling was refering to in a poem? Why would WotC call the material "cold iron" if it was "mere" iron?

Because it sounds nice.


g) I truly despise when someone is imaginative and creative and spends the time writing to share their thoughts on this subject, only to be told "RL doesn't work this way".

Is this the bit where I demonstrate my total and utter lack of caring?


Hong "NEXT!" Ooi
 



hong said:

Is this the bit where I demonstrate my total and utter lack of caring?

Except that reference was in no way refering to you Hong "Ego" Ooi. I didn't see you as spitting on the imaginative.

Perhaps you just have a pretense of non-caring. The truly non-caring wouldn't even bother to quote... :P
 

green slime said:


Except that reference was in no way refering to you Hong "Ego" Ooi. I didn't see you as spitting on the imaginative.

Oh. In that case, carry on, then. :cool:

Perhaps you just have a pretense of non-caring. The truly non-caring wouldn't even bother to quote... :P

Not only do I quote, I even put in the bold and /bold tags to keep things consistent.


Hong "because I'm just such a NICE GUY" Ooi
 

Couldn't cold iron just be iron that was made in a forge that couldn't create the insane temperatures that a "high-tech" forge of the time could?

There's a massive difference between using a campfire to heat the metal and using a giant billow/coal fire.

At least that's what I've always thought cold-wrought iron was. Not completely made without fire, just made without the insane temperatures required for more well-made items.

--Cool Spikey
 

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