[semi-Rant] As a DM, does item creation ever get you down?

[Kid Charlemagne]

The only problem I have with this is when you get to higher levels. Like my +5 axe. That is a 50,000gp item. At level 15 that is not really absorb to have. But by your standards that would be a DC 60!! That puts an non-epic item up into epic levels! You might want to make some kind of adjustment for that somehow. I am not sure how but you might want to bump it up to +1/5,000 gp once you get up to a higher level.

My presumption is that you're just not going to find many people who can afford such an item. The idea is that for an item that is that valuable, no amount of rolling will get the job done. You'll need to really roleplay out that one to get that +5 axe sold - go to the dwarven court, start making contacts with dwarven nobles or great dwarven heroes, etc.

Roleplaying is the means to trump the DC for items that expensive.

 

[Datt]

Oh I have no intentions on selling it, I made it and am having it enchanted for my use. It is going to become the family heirloom. I was talking about finding a caster would could "figure out the formula". But as long as I could roleplay the finding of a caster, and I say caster and not wizard because clerics can enchant items as well, who is able to enchant it would be fine with me.

 

[kengar]

I know the core of my problem is that I haven't been more "definitive" about my policy on magic items. What I need to do is just make a clean break from my past policy of just "going by the book" and making items less common or easy to have made. My point (as much as I had one) was that "by the book" item creation rules are too cut & dried. It's my own fault for letting my concerns about maintaining a high magic feel to Faerun get in the way of controlling the situation better. Some of my players are the types who will push for any concession/advantage they can get from the DM. Not the rules' fault, but adds to my frustration.

In a new campaign that we a re looking to start soon, the item rules are closer to what's been described above. I think I'll just start using some of them now in the FR campaign instead of "waiting it out."

 

[Gothmog]

I don't really have a point here, just mostly venting. But does anyone else -as DM or Player- ever find that the "everything has a GP value" and "I have Keen added to my +1 Longsword of Frost" is a bit annoying?

Yep kengar, its one of the few things I REALLY dislike about 3E. Magic items are no longer special, interesting, or rare under the core rules- I have played in games where going shopping for magic items in towns felt more like going to Amazon.com and looking for the best deals on a plethora of magical goodies. Blech. When magic becomes so common that players take for granted that they SHOULD have x item by y level, something is very wrong. The biggest problem is that now the core rules assume that the players should have a gp value of items by a certain level, and if they don't, then many players feel the DM is stiffing them. I REALLY dislike that gp wealth per character level table- its the DMs world and campaign, and he shouldn't feel constrained by the books in what is acceptable.

Anyway, what I do with item creation in my lower-magic game is require rare components to make items, as well as gold and XP. It also takes about 1 month per every 5000 gp value of the item to make it, and a spellcraft check with a DC of 10 + 1 per 3000 gp value of the item PER MONTH. If the check is failed the item is not ruined unless a natural 1 is rolled, but there has been a setback in the construction that adds 10% to the gp costs of the item. Also, I don't allow for simple +1 swords to be made- every item must have a purpose or unusual ability (not necessarily out of the DMG) because in a world where magic is less common, people simply wouldn't waste the time in creating generic magic items.

 

[LostSoul]

Hmm. I like item creation.

I run a low-magic world and I have no problem with the PCs creating their own magic items. I'd actually like to see more of it. I think it's because it shows that the Players are interested in doing things on their own without my guidance.

The only thing I've changed (and I'm not sure this is even a change) is that PCs can't just melt down gold to create magic items. They need to find components. Usually I tell them the gold piece value of something they've found - raiding another Wizard's lab left them with thousands of gold peices of value in components, which they stuffed into their new Bag of Holding.

 

[LostSoul]

Magic items are no longer special, interesting, or rare under the core rules- I have played in games where going shopping for magic items in towns felt more like going to Amazon.com and looking for the best deals on a plethora of magical goodies. Blech. When magic becomes so common that players take for granted that they SHOULD have x item by y level, something is very wrong. The biggest problem is that now the core rules assume that the players should have a gp value of items by a certain level, and if they don't, then many players feel the DM is stiffing them.

I think that, while what you've said above might be the "default" campaign setting, you can alter this to fit your group. You don't have to use "magic shops" in your campaign. You don't have to dole out the standard amount of treasure. But you also have to realize that, if you do so, the PCs are not going to be balanced according to the CR tables; they'll be a little on the weak side. There isn't any problem with this, because most DMs should look at each encounter and balance it according to the PC's power level. Or, if you run an organic world, just make sure the PCs know where they stand, what they can deal with, and make sure they can handle something out there.

 

[Kid Charlemagne]

Oh I have no intentions on selling it, I made it and am having it enchanted for my use. It is going to become the family heirloom. I was talking about finding a caster would could "figure out the formula". But as long as I could roleplay the finding of a caster, and I say caster and not wizard because clerics can enchant items as well, who is able to enchant it would be fine with me.

Ah, I see now. You already figured out how I would handle it - something like that should be a roleplay thing, not just a "roll a check, OK, you got someone" thing. It's kind of a demarcation point - below this point, it can be done somewhat easily/minimal fuss, above that point, it requires more in-game justification. And the point moves upward, reflecting both the ability of higher level PCs to locate such things, and the fact that at 15th level, you don't necessarily want to treat a +3 sword with the same amount of game time as you would at 5th level.

 

[Katerek]

I myself have had some issues, so I created the following:

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The character must know how to make the magic item involved. Acquiring the necessary feat is but the first step. In order to complete the process the character must have a set of plans known as a Codex in order to construct a magic item.

Codex’s are non-magical books and tomes that contain the detailed instructions on how to manufacture any of the thousands of different magical devices, weapons, rods, wands, and what have you that are scattered across the known world of Novare. Whenever a character take’s an item creation feat, it is assumed that they acquire a codex at that time. Player’s are strongly encouraged to inform the DM in advance when they are planning to take an item creation feat.

This also presents an opportunity for DM’s to seed certain types of treasure in the world without the game balance being drastically over done. Imagine the story possibilities if the Scarred Trolls of Greycloven Glen were to offer to sell the newly acquired Codex: Wand of Cure Serious Wounds to the highest bidder. Imagine if the players were the last to find out!

A codex includes all the instructions necessary for the construction of a specific magic item listed in the Dungeon Master’s Guide or any other magic item resource. Codex’s may be in other languages, or contain variations on a theme. A codex makes little sense to anyone that doesn’t have the necessary metamagic feat. Codices are typically fashioned of high quality materials, though they may be discovered either partially completed or partially destroyed. In these instances, the DM must dictate the possible results (a percentage chance of failure on the over all construction perhaps?). The value of a codex is typically equal to the market value of the item in question x 2.5.

Should a character wish to make a codex, a simple expenditure of gold is all that is required as long as they are making a codex for an item that they have already created before. If they do not have another codex to work from (for instance if the original was lost) then construction requires a memory check DC 20. If a character is making a brand new magic item from scratch, it is assumed that they are fashioning a codex as their work progresses. This adds an additional 25% to the overall cost of making the first item in question.

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Let me know what you think. I would love to get feedback.

 

[Bagpuss]

So rarely happens in my game it's not like they don't have the money to do it the party has just captured a mithral mine. They seem either new to D&D so don't know they can or use to AD&D so don't know they can. They also don't think its worth the XP loss.

I had to explain how cheap Bull's Strength potions are to make to get the Cleric to use the feat he bought 'because it seemed interesting' then never used.

 

[Geoff Watson]

I have no problems with letting the PCs get what they want, assuming they can afford it and the requirements aren't too rare.

It's better to deal with it quickly and get on with the 'real' adventure rather than having lots of pointless 'scavenger hunt' or 'suck up to the NPC' adventures.

Geoff.