Seminar Transcript - Reimagining Skills and Ability Scores

[Dragonblade]

I've always been of the opposite school of thought. I've always wanted race to be more important than it is.

Usually, it has a bit of an effect at first (not much) and by 5th level there's no difference to note between a hafling and a half-orc. But I WANT there to be a real noticeable difference between those two choices for the entire character life. A half-orc should be big and strong, and halfling should not (unless you do some weird stuff).

I'd go further. I'd make the usual modifiers +/- 4. You KNOW that's a half-orc. He's big and strong, whatever career he chooses. The halfling is never going to be as strong as a half-orc.

I think I'm in a minority there. Certainly Monte Cook doesn't agree with me.

Sure, I agree with you, but I think there are better ways to express that through other racial abilities.

If the half-orc is stronger, you can let him carry more, or lift more than another PC with the same strength. He gets a bonus to any check involving strength.

This adds flavor and mechanical distinction without punishing player class choices based on race. A game where all fighters are half-orcs because the mechanics are so far tilted in their favor that it would be stupid to play a fighter as any other race makes for a pretty boring game, IMO.

 

[1of3]

It was save vs. attack. I'm guessing you either get a save or there is a damage roll. So it's always two rolls.

 

[Morrus]

I love the idea of not having a skill list at all. It's simply the ability scores, with bonuses to certain actions, and those actions are open-ended and infinite in possibility.

STR 15 (+2 when climbing, +3 when opening jars)
DEX 12 (+2 when doing backflips)
CON 10 (+4 against poison)
INT 14 (+2 when researching, +2 when dealing with the history of Abba)
WIS 9 (+4 when resisting compulsion due to stubbornness)
CHA 10 (+2 initial impression due to good looks, +2 when dancing)

 

[Ichneumon]

Overall, more goodness than a bowl of bran flakes. Not sure about ability rolling as the default, though.

 

[Roman]

I really like this a lot - the new edition appears to have real potential for me.

 

[Argyle King]

"Monte: Making a saving throw against something has become something that's really a part of D&D. So again, what we've done is tie those into the ability scores. For example you'll make a strength saving throw or wisdom saving throw against a certain effect and so far it's become a big part of some effects and abilities. The attacker makes a check and that sets the DC for your saving throw."


Pretty similar to an idea I had posted here on Enworld a few times. That makes me feel good.

 

[tuxgeo]

Not yet addressed (or even decided?):

1. Will characters still need 13 in a stat to multiclass (e.g. 13 INT for Wiz)? (If it's going more toward the 3E style, that requirement might disappear.)

2. Are the ability modifiers going to be the same as in 4E -- 8-9 = -1, 10-11 = 0, 12-13 = 1, 14-15 = 2, 16-17 = 3, 18-19 = 4, 20-21 = 5, 22-23 = 6, 24-25 = 7?
Or might they flatten that out a bit: 6-8 = -1, 9-12 = 0, 13-15 = 1, 16-18 = 2, 19-21 = 3, 22-24 = 4?

3. Are the ability modifiers going to add to attack rolls? If not, that might reduce some people's tendency to optimize class selection based on race.

 

[LurkAway]

If the half-orc is stronger, you can let him carry more, or lift more than another PC with the same strength. He gets a bonus to any check involving strength.

That would lack internal consistency to me. If a half-orc is strong, he's strong. Doesn't seem cohesive to me that high strength is only expressed in limited discreet situations, like being able to carry more. Also, practically speaking, it's easier/simpler to remember, orc = strong, than orc = strong in certain conditions and here are those conditions.

As per another thread, I don't have a problem with racial modifiers based on genetic/morphological traits (avoids the humans in funny suit syndrome) -- it's the cultural/environmental traits that I'd like to be able to decouple from the equation.

 

[Knightfall]

I really, really like the direction the designers are taking this new iteration. And I really like that negative racial modifiers might make a comeback. I know that a lot of people hate them, but it just doesn't feel like D&D to me without them.

Race should not just be a benefit, IMO. There has to be some drawbacks that go with it. However, I'm fine if the designers decide to make it optional. But it should be an option.

Add now, if you choose a class that goes against your race's stereotypical role, it will provide a boost to offset the racial penalty.

Want to be a half-orc bard? Sure. You might have a -1 to Charisma based on your race, but being a bard gives you a +1 to Charisma to offset it. This PC might not be as good as a elven bard who might gain a +1 from race and a +1 from the class, but the character still has its place in the game.

The only concern I have about the idea of gaining a ability score bonus due to class is multiclassing. Do you get the class bonus(es) for every class to take or only for the class that you take at 1st level?

 

[Invisible Stalker]

I also would like racial bonuses and penalties to be stronger.

I do like what I'm hearing in general as a DM.

4d6 drop the lowest is my preferred method of generation, so I'm glad that's still around.