Sense Motive - passive or active?

BTW a player pointed out to me that, somewhat ironically given this discussion, on PHB pg 81 "Sense Motive" it is clearly described as an active skill which the player has to choose to use. The GM may make the roll in secret so you don't know if you succeeded, but from the wording it's clear the player has to request the roll. Furthermore "Action: Trying to gain information with Sense Motive generally takes at least 1 minute, and you could spend a whole evening trying to get a sense of the people around you."

So according to the book RAW it can't even be used in "He went thataway!" situations, even by player request, unless you're prepared to spend a minute or so interrogating the speaker. You could make it that detecting Bluffs is not an Action, which seems reasonable to me, but there's nothing in the description to specifically support that ruling.
 

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Thanee said:
Then look up the bluff skill description. ;)

Bye
Thanee

Hey, we're talking about using Sense Motive, not Bluff! :p

Seriously, I blame Tallarn, who pointed out SM's descriptor but not Bluff - you're quite right that per the Bluff skill description, Sense Motive automatically opposes Bluff rolls, so if the PC or NPC makes a Bluff roll, the target automatically gets a (free) SM roll opposing it. But there's nothing in the Bluff skill description that says you as GM _have_ to use this skill, certainly not vs PCs - which would go against the general "Your Jedi mind tricks won't work on me!" bar to NPC interaction skills determining PC behaviour. The PHB phrases everything from the POV of PCs, not GMs, and I think that's the source of some of these confusions & disagreements.
 


Thanee said:
No, you never have to use the rules... ;)

Hey! That doesn't count, you can't say that! Can't come and join the club just like that. ;)
It's just S'mon and I who are the worthless GMs and heretics who won't use rules - or more specifically, not the (dare I say it? *shudder*...) Officially Rules-Forum Sanctified Sense Motive Application Rules. Tsk tsk. :)

:)
 

When do you ever listen to someone telling a story and decide "hrm, I think I'm going to turn on my 'lie detection' and see if he's telling the truth"? You don't. You listen, and you get a funny idea that maybe he's not telling the whole story.

In game terms... *whenever* anyone is not telling the truth, they should be making a bluff roll. That's how good their lie is, and as it states in the rules, this is opposed by a sense motive check.

Sense motive is passive... the only time you have to say "I want to make a sense motive roll" is when you need to remind the DM the skill exists.

-The Souljourner
 

The Souljourner said:
When do you ever listen to someone telling a story and decide "hrm, I think I'm going to turn on my 'lie detection' and see if he's telling the truth"? You don't. You listen, and you get a funny idea that maybe he's not telling the whole story.

In game terms... *whenever* anyone is not telling the truth, they should be making a bluff roll. That's how good their lie is, and as it states in the rules, this is opposed by a sense motive check.

Sense motive is passive... the only time you have to say "I want to make a sense motive roll" is when you need to remind the DM the skill exists.

-The Souljourner
Or verify if someone is charmed. I would do it passively also but I know some people who do it actively.
 

StalkingBlue said:
Hey! That doesn't count, you can't say that! Can't come and join the club just like that. ;)
It's just S'mon and I who are the worthless GMs and heretics who won't use rules - ...
Hey! That's not what I was saying... please go back and try again... :p

or more specifically, not the (dare I say it? *shudder*...) Officially Rules-Forum Sanctified Sense Motive Application Rules. Tsk tsk.
Do you have a link?

Would certainly save a lot on those never-ending discussions... ;)

Bye
Thanee
 

Thanee said:
Hey! That's not what I was saying...

Hmm ... Not sure how valid that complaint is. Isn't this the official twist-people's-words-in-their-mouths thread? If not excuse me, I'll go find it. :p

Thanee said:
please go back and try again... :p


Do you have a link?

Would certainly save a lot on those never-ending discussions... ;)

Hey! Here I am doing my bloody best to keep this thread alive for you people's enjoyment, and what do I get? Disbelief and ingratitude. :uhoh: ;)
 


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