Sensitivity Writers. AKA: avoiding cultural appropriate in writing

[Sacrosanct]

But there is nothing wrong with emulating culture.

Actually, there is. And it's a big reason. That's how minority cultures die out. And more often than not, it's intentional by the majority to do so. Native Americans adopted and given "white" names and dress. Taking pagan holidays like Winter Solstice and making it the celebration of Jesus's birthday (despite him being born in August), and things like christmas trees, and presents, and dressing up for Halloween.

Really, the list is pretty exhaustive of how cultures in history have hijacked other minority cultures as a way to eliminate their influence and culture.

 

[Bedrockgames]

Actually, there is. And it's a big reason. That's how minority cultures die out. And more often than not, it's intentional by the majority to do so. Native Americans adopted and given "white" names and dress. Taking pagan holidays like Winter Solstice and making it the celebration of Jesus's birthday (despite him being born in August), and things like christmas trees, and presents, and dressing up for Halloween.

Really, the list is pretty exhaustive of how cultures in history have hijacked other minority cultures as a way to eliminate their influence and culture.

Wait a second. Your mixing up all kinds of things here. You are talking about the Christianization of Europe which relied on adopting pagan elements to make Christianity more appealing (it also relied other things as well like force). That is way more complicated than borrowing headgear and slacks. And it was a conversion effort. Minority cultures die out because they get displaced, people take their land, they are the victims of genocide, they are pressured to assimilate, etc. I don't think people appreciate the kind of conspiracy minded thinking going into this narrative you are building. If you examine the history of the Christianization of Europe, I don't think this is the lesson you take from it. I would say more often than not, an unwillingness to engage with outside cultures, rather than a willingness to engage, is to blame for bloodshed, genocide and cultural destruction. You are cherry picking aspects of history to make a case for people not borrowing musical scales or visual patterns that come from cultures outside their own. I don't think you can compare the spread of Christianity or the spread of Islam to someone borrowing a bit of music, or wearing their hair in a certain style. Christianity and Islam were massive cultural shifts.

Also very important here: without that kind of approbation we wouldn't have our own vibrant culture that includes things like celebrating halloween, decorating Christmas trees, etc. Everything comes from somewhere. The pagans got those ideas from other people too. This drive to distill cutlural elements to some kind of mythical pure form, I think is deeply misguided.

 

[Sacrosanct]

Wait a second. Your mixing up all kinds of things here. You are talking about the Christianization of Europe which relied on adopting pagan elements to make Christianity more appealing (it also relied other things as well like force). That is way more complicated than borrowing headgear and slacks. Minority cultures die out because they get displaced, people take their land, they are the victims of genocide, they are pressured to assimilate, etc. I don't think people appreciate the kind of conspiracy minded thinking going into this narrative you are building. If you examine the history of the Christianization of Europe, I don't think this is the lesson you take from it. I would say more often than not, an unwillingness to engage with outside cultures, rather than a willingness to engage, is to blame for bloodshed, genocide and cultural destruction. You are cherry picking aspects of history to make a case for people not borrowing musical scales or visual patterns that come from cultures outside their own.

Also very important here: without that kind of approbation we wouldn't have our own vibrant culture that includes things like celebrating halloween, decorating Christmas trees, etc. Everything comes from somewhere. The pagans got those ideas from other people too. This drive to distill cutlural elements to some kind of mythical pure form, I think is deeply misguided.

No, I'm not mixing up things. It's all part of the same thing. It cheapens, lessens, and bastardizes genuine culture when others take bits and pieces of it to hijack it for their own. See the above spirit animal reference. So many white people go around using it, that our culture now not only doesn't have the proper respect for people who that is actually sacred to, but it's been jumbled so much that most people don't even realize that most Native Americans don't believe in the concept of a spirit animal that is being used by non natives. Rather most people treat Native American cultures as some sort of homogenized culture now. And that is how actual cultures get lost.

 

[Mercurius]

I would recommend (trying to) bypass the issue by reframing your intention as being inspired by certain real world cultures, rather than whether or not you are in danger of appropriating, because in today's volatile context you're going to offend someone. Just be aware, respectful, and think in terms of being inspired by. You are not "appropriating" anything - you are being creatively inspired by cultures and incorporating those elements into your work. Being inspired by is inherently a place of respecting what you're inspired by.

If you are ever actually confronted, you can say "I was inspired by X culture," and really only extremists will be offended - and there is always going to be someone that gets offended.

Here's a very interesting article on fantasy fiction and this issue: Writers blocked: even fantasy fiction is now offensive.

 

[Bedrockgames]

No, I'm not mixing up things. It's all part of the same thing. It cheapens, lessens, and bastardizes genuine culture when others take bits and pieces of it to hijack it for their own. See the above spirit animal reference. So many white people go around using it, that our culture now not only doesn't have the proper respect for people who that is actually sacred to, but it's been jumbled so much that most people don't even realize that most Native Americans don't believe in that concept. Rather most people treat Native American cultures as some sort of homogenized culture now. And that is how actual cultures get lost.

That seems like a very weak argument to me. I am not saying people should go around using Totem animals. But you see this sort of cultural adoption of things all the time. The Buddha has become a cartoon in certain deceptions, and you see similar things with Jesus. That doesn't automatically weaken faith in Buddhism or Christianity. Other things have to be going on. And I don't think people adopting these cultural elements make them more hostile toward the culture they are borrowing from. I feel like this is a very simple answer people are reaching for that isn't actually the source of the problem.

And the second part of your paragraph makes this even more confusing. How is people believing something false about a culture, going to contribute to that culture dying?

 

[Sacrosanct]

That seems like a very weak argument to me.

Probably because you're not a Native American who has had, and is having, their sacred culture being hijacked. But believe me, it is a very real and solid argument. Ironically, you're proving why I posted this in the first place.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

It isn't the existence of complaints. It is the proliferation of complaints under the banner of cultural appropriation, which often seem like frivolous complaints compared to more serious conners about offensive material. I think what happens is people start to file any concern under the same grouping as that, and they start taking concerns overall less seriously. There is a big difference between using the N word for example and a Kate Perry video. But the more people hear complaints about a celebrity borrowing from Egyptian culture, the more the dismissive they become overall.

Just because you think something is frivolous doesn’t mean everyone else feels likewise.

Sometimes, a complaint about cultural appropriation isn’t about a single particular example, but an accumulation of similar transgressions.

Can a bunch of complaints lead to fatigue? Certainly! But just like a parent might nag a kid about picking up his toys, perhaps the constant drumbeat of criticisms about cultural appropriation exists because the prior complaints have been dismissed and ignored.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

But there is nothing wrong with emulating culture. If you see something in a culture you like and want to incorporate into a work, I do not understand this new mentality that you somehow shouldn't do that. That is how new ideas come about. What you are advocating is keeping cultural ideas locked in their original context. Or at the very least gate kept by people within that culture so they only evolve at a rate set locally. I look back on the history of the world and think what an awful place we'd live in today if that is how things were done. Ideas need to spread, and people need to absorb them, rework them, and turn them into new things. Otherwise ideas decay.

I am not saying you cannot use elements of another culture within your own creative works. Synthesis is crucial to both culture and science. That’s why Soil & Pimp Sessions plays killer jazz in Japan, why rap is a worldwide phenomenon, why the Beatles & Led Zeppelin’s dabbling in eastern musical modes is celebrated, how Blues became rock & roll.

I’m saying that doing so without understanding & respecting what you’re using is problematic, and THAT is the core of criticisms of cultural appropriation.

That’s literally the gist of my initial post in this thread.

 

[Mercurius]

But where does it end? And who is the final arbiter? This is the problem - there is no end, or rather the end is dystopian authoritarianism which George Orwell described beautifully in the 1940s.

Furthermore, the "constant drumbeat of complaints" don't in and of themselves prove their own validity just because they're constant. There are a wide range of complaints, and my concern is when no differentiation is made. This is happening in a number of different contexts, from cultural appropriation, the metoo movement, free speech, etc etc.

There's quite a difference between Harvey Weinstein and Louis CK, just as there's a huge difference between wearing blackface and being inspired by African mythology in a roleplaying game.

The problem with the "constant drumbeat of complaints" is that it tends to drown out any difference or nuance.

 

[Mercurius]

I’m saying that doing so without understanding & respecting what you’re using is problematic, and THAT is the core of criticisms of cultural appropriation.

I can agree on the respecting part, which is pretty easy to do. But the understanding part is more problematic and creates an impossible bind: claiming you understand could be deemed as a form of appropriation.

It doesn't need to be that complex: just be respectful, be sensitive, but if you end up doing everything possible to not offend anyone, you're going to handcuff yourself creativity and chances are there's someone out there who will be offended.