Separating Attack and Utility Spell Slots

Should 5e Separate Attack and Utility Spells?

  • Yes - Have Separate Spell Slots for Attack and Utility Spells.

    Votes: 28 25.0%
  • No - Keep Spell Slots Separated Only By Spell Level.

    Votes: 73 65.2%
  • Other

    Votes: 11 9.8%

Falling Icicle

Adventurer
One thing I think 4e did right was to separate attack and utility spells. You don't ever have to choose between fireball and tongues, or magic missile and feather fall. While 5e is allowing some utility spells to be cast as rituals, and I think that is a great diea, I think this could just further encourage people to prepare lots of combat spells and rarely, if ever, prepare alot of the more situational spells (or just leave those for scrolls). I can see several advantages to separating attack and utility spell slots, the way 4e did:

- It makes preparing spells easier, since the player doesn't have so many choices to fill in each slot, and he doesn't have to worry as much about screwing up and picking the "wrong" spells.

- Many of the more situational utility spells will see use, because players no longer are "giving up" a "more valuable" and likely to be used fireball or other combat spell for it.

- It helps prevent "trap" choices. Players will be guaranteed to have a certain number of combat spells and a certain number of other spells, so less experienced players won't be able to make the mistake of preparing nothing but utility magic and not have any combat ability that day, or vice versa.

- It makes PC spellcaster power alot more predictable and managable for the DM, since he knows roughly how much of the PCs resources will be combat magic, and how much will be utility magic. This makes balancing encounters easier for the DM, since PC magic user's competence won't vary wildly from one character to another or one day to to the next.

- It helps consolidate the spell lists. Since there will be fewer levels of each type of spell (let's say 4-5 levels of combat spells and 4-5 levels of utility magic, instead of 9 levels of both) you won't need to have 9 levels of both combat and utility spells to fill. This helps to considerably cut down on spell bloat because you don't need to offer several dozen spells of each level and each type for players to choose from. They could easily cut the number of spells in the game down by 1/3 or more this way, combining alot of the redundant spells (like silent/minor/major image).

I know alot of people will have some reservations about this. They may feel that this reduces their freedom and choices as a spellcaster, and to a degree, that is true. That was originally my reservation as well. But the more I've thought about it, the less this bothers me, and I don't think one would be losing as much freedom as they might think.

"Combat" magic can include a much wider variety of things than fireballs and lightning bolts. Things like charm, confusion, summoned monsters, and so on could easily fit in that category. I think it's important to stress that just because a spell is labeled combat or utility doesn't mean that a combat spell can't have uses outside of combat, or a utility spell within combat.

So, what do you think? Should 5e separate attack and utility spells?
 

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I think that most utility spells should be rituals.

By utility spell, I mean a spell that won't be of any use in 95% of combat, like Comprehend Languages and Alarm.

Spells like Charm Person and Jump are a different matter, as they can help in combat indirectly, even if they offer utility out of combat.
 


Sorry, I disagree entirely. One of the worst things 4e did for the game IMO was take the "magic" out of magic. Now don't get me wrong, I like 4e and if my group weren't a bunch of stubborn grognards, I'd like to run a 4e game again. But I really like the older style mechanic where a magic user has to choose between pure damage and tactics/out-of-combat usefulness. But I'm a sucker for anytime a character's mechanical choices directly inform on the character's personality.

A wizard who packs mostly utility spells is going to be a planner and schemer, more of a chessmaster than anything else. A wizard who loads up on chain lightnings and fireballs is more likely to be a cackling pyromaniac. The former is Gandalf, the latter is Lina Inverse. Somewhere in the middle is Harry Dresden. I kinda like it that way.
 

So, what do you think? Should 5e separate attack and utility spells?
I think it is a not so good idea on several levels.

It does not make much sense in that some "utility" spells can be used intelligently/creatively in combat and combat spells could be used effectively out of combat. What believable in game reason can you produce to partition the two in terms of wizardly spellcasting resources? A spell is a spell is a spell... unless it is also a ritual and rituals seem a much neater and believable way of handling this separation.

You discuss "traps" but choosing an ineffective spell on a particular day is very much different to choosing an ineffective feat that remains on your character sheet indefinitely. The management of resources (and the occasional mismanagement) is what the Vancian system is all about when a wall of 3e wands and scrolls don't get in the way (I really hope they use an implement approach rather than a spell storage approach for such things). The wizard has at-wills as a baseline to work from so the wizard is never going to be completely useless. The Vancian system rewards the wizard who finds information to aid this process.

I much prefer that a wizard player's choices are left open to suit the scenario their character finds themselves in rather than having an arbitrary separation of magic manacle this process.

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise
 
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Absolutely not. I've used a number of 'utility' spells in combat situations.

I really don't want them to simply make them all ritual-only. I may not even have rituals in my game.
 

in a way this is already done by giving "utility spells" the OPTION of being rituals.

Therefore you don't need to use your spellslots to memorize any given "utility spell" unless you want to, because you can always cast it as a ritual by virtue of knowing it (at added time and expense in the form of a ritual rather than a spellslot).
 

One way to deal with this is to give all the utility spells a combat application such as you could levitate an enemy into the air and drop him doing fall damage.

Another way to deal with this is to make some utility spells a move action that does not waste a standard attack. Blink could be a reaction that forces the attacker to roll again to hit the wizard -- for example.

I'm totally against separating powers. We've got spell attacks, utilities, rituals, cantrips, etc.. We've got martial feats, exploits, tricks, class features, racial traits. We've got opportunity attacks, reaction, trigger action, recharge.. etc..

It gets all unmanageable. And many of the powers are duplicates that do the same thing.
 



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