Sept 2nd News - I wont be doing Scales of War

[Dire Bare]

I'd say that if WotC, as posted above, do not even follow the advice about needing plot outlines in their own product (El Mahdi pointed this out, p. 141 DMG, Campaign Outline), then it's neither unfair nor ignorant to call that stupid, arrogant, and possibly deceitful, depending on their motives.

Preaching water and drinking wine and all.

Soooooo, if they don't take the attacks from the cranky gamer squeaky wheel squad as useful sound advice, they are stupid and arrogant and deceitful? Nice train of logic there.

Oh well, they may lose the business of the cranky gamers, but they won't lose mine, or the majority of D&D players. Heh, I even doubt they lose much business from the cranky gamers, as what would they then complain about?

 

[El Mahdi]

Soooooo, if they don't take the attacks from the cranky gamer squeaky wheel squad as useful sound advice, they are stupid and arrogant and deceitful? Nice train of logic there.

Oh well, they may lose the business of the cranky gamers, but they won't lose mine, or the majority of D&D players. Heh, I even doubt they lose much business from the cranky gamers, as what would they then complain about?

How is this constructive? If someone thinks WoTC response is reasonable, they have a right to say it. If someone thinks WoTC response is unreasonable, they also have a right to say it. Why is it that people on both sides of this feel the need to attack people on the other side? I, and I hope, most people, have no problem with opposite opinions or polite, respectful responses pointing out flaws in logic or arguments. However, I think it's fairly universal that people take umbrage at being insulted for stating an opinion. People on both sides of this have been doing this.

The Little Raven did a good job of pointing out an inaccuracy in Fenes statement (in post #91) in a respectful and logical manner, without attacking the person. Why does this seem so dificult for others to do?

Because a portion of WoTC customers, specifically a portion of WoTC DM customers, have a critique for WoTC about their products, and express those opinions to WoTC, that does not make them the "cranky gamer squeaky wheel squad". What they are is fans and customers, providing feedback about a fan driven company and product.

Maybe WoTC will lose customers over this, and then again, maybe not. But whether someone outside of WoTC agrees with the complaints or not, doesn't matter. In business, the maxim "the customer is always right", still does, and probably will always, apply.

Personally, I feel like this thread is a horse that's been beaten, hit with criticals a few times, and then coup de' graced right into the ground. If there's no more useful, constructive, and respectful opinions to be stated about this subject, maybe it's time for the mods to close it.

 

[Goumindong]

Except nothing about this has anything to do with players. It's about DMs.

How so? I didn't get my special DM password that lets me get all the DM only material. When did they hand you yours?

 

[Wonka]

How so? I didn't get my special DM password that lets me get all the DM only material. When did they hand you yours?

I got mine today! Only cost me 9.95 a month mmhmm mmhmm!

edit: Before this gets misconstrued, this is merely a joke. There is no maliciousness behind this. Just attempting to take some of the edge off this discussion

 

[Goumindong]

I got mine today! Only cost me 9.95 a month mmhmm mmhmm!

edit: Before this gets misconstrued, this is merely a joke. There is no maliciousness behind this. Just attempting to take some of the edge off this discussion

NP. The point is there is no reasonable way to restrict the information once its out there and releasing it limits their options to change the path on the fly as necessary

Its not some horrible slight against the DnD community.

 

[Wonka]

NP. The point is there is no reasonable way to restrict the information once its out there and releasing it limits their options to change the path on the fly as necessary

Its not some horrible slight against the DnD community.

Yup. That is a very valid point. It is probably why they aren't releasing the synopsis; they just dont have it all ready or they want some wiggle room in case something changes along the way. I just wish, however, that they would tell us that if it were the case! I think most people would be much more reasonable about this if they had said that. I think what bothers most people about this, myself included, is the manner in which Randy went about rejected the proposal for the overview. The stated reason just doesnt make a whole lot of sense. As has been mentioned elsewhere, a really good compromise I think would be a "per-tier" synopsis. Im sure they have the modules to 10th or 11th level in editing now. While not giving the whole overview that might be wanted, it would at least give SOMETHING to work with.

 

[Fenes]

There's also no way to restrict players from downloading the full adventures, yet they are still posted. So, that's no no reason not to post the outline - players who would want to spoil it for themselves will already be reading the adventures as they are posted anyway.

 

[Goumindong]

Yup. That is a very valid point. It is probably why they aren't releasing the synopsis; they just dont have it all ready

No. I never said "they just don't have it all ready" i said "a published outline sets the path in stone". They say they have an outline and there is no reason to doubt them. Its just this "they are terrible and/or incompetent and my proof is that they didn't release the overview" is ridiculous.

There's also no way to restrict players from downloading the full adventures, yet they are still posted. So, that's no no reason not to post the outline - players who would want to spoil it for themselves will already be reading the adventures as they are posted anyway.

Downloading a full adventure might get you advanced information by a month or a few sessions. In all likelihood there are going to be hints to that specific reveal anyway. With information on the entire path out there you are likely to find out that the guy who is hiring you is actually a member of the devious black jugglers and you're getting them an artifact that they will use 4 adventures down the line to summon a demon.

As i said earlier, there is a big difference watching "The Empire Strikes Back" and knowing from the outset that Vader is Luke's father and watching "A New Hope" and knowing that Vader is Luke's father, Princess Lea is his sister, Vader built C-3PO, and R2-D2 was his mothers droid.

By not releasing an overview you can keep the spoiling, intentional or unintentional to a minimum.

 

[ProfessorCirno]

As i said earlier, there is a big difference watching "The Empire Strikes Back" and knowing from the outset that Vader is Luke's father and watching "A New Hope" and knowing that Vader is Luke's father, Princess Lea is his sister, Vader built C-3PO, and R2-D2 was his mothers droid.

By not releasing an overview you can keep the spoiling, intentional or unintentional to a minimum.

And I'm saying that Lucas still made sure the other people making the movie knew what was going on.

 

[Goumindong]

And I'm saying that Lucas still made sure the other people making the movie knew what was going on.

Uhh, no he didn't. Not until they were prepping for screening the next one. Rumor is that Hamil didn't know the Vader reveal until they were actually shooting it[that or it was he never knew because he wasn't playing with the final script, as Jones was doing voice overs]

And even then there is a massive difference between "3-4 people who have an interest in keeping information secret who are making your movie know what is going on" than "releasing the information to the world and hoping no one but the right people find out"