Set to Receive Charge

[Ranger REG]

side questions (to my original side question)
when does a person start being a charging character?

When he tells the DM that he intends to make a charge attack and will apply both penalty and benefits toward that attack. He must declare it is a charge attack.

and when do they stop being a charging character?

When he did not declare a charge attack.

 

[Hypersmurf]

I think that the use of the word 'receive' implies an 'incoming' direction, which would negate the scenario you presented.

Well, if you're looking at the word 'receive' as a key, then it implies charges at you, so it would negate the scenario I2k presented as well - that of readying against a charge directed at someone else.

I think one could rule that a character can ready against charges aimed at himself, or that a character can ready against any charging creature, but I don't think one can rule that a character can ready against any charging creature, but only if they're in a certain direction. How does one determine whether the direction is 'incoming' enough to allow it?

[color=#DDDDDD]
  ---------
  |.....[color=SlateGray]o[/color].|
  |.......[color=Brown]+[/color]###
  |.[color=Brown]G[/color].....|  ###
  |...[color=White]@[/color].[color=red]h[/color][color=Yellow]o[/color]|    ####
  |.....[color=Turquoise][b],[/b][/color].|
  |.[color=LimeGreen]h[/color]..[color=Turquoise][b],[/b][/color]..|
  |...[color=Turquoise][b],[/b][/color]...|
  |..[color=Turquoise][b],[/b][/color]....|
  |.[color=LimeGreen]@[/color]...[color=Brown]k[/color].|
  ---------
[/color]

The goblin charges the dwarf(h). The dwarf(h) charges the kobold. The Gnome charges the hobbit. The hobbit charges the Green-Elf(@).

The human(@) stands in the middle with his longspear. Which of these charges would he gain double damage against, if he readied against it? Any? All? None?

-Hyp.

 

[Legildur]

Well, if you're looking at the word 'receive' as a key, then it implies charges at you, so it would negate the scenario I2k presented as well - that of readying against a charge directed at someone else.

I think one could rule that a character can ready against charges aimed at himself, or that a character can ready against any charging creature, but I don't think one can rule that a character can ready against any charging creature, but only if they're in a certain direction. How does one determine whether the direction is 'incoming' enough to allow it?

[color=#DDDDDD]
  ---------
  |.....[color=SlateGray]o[/color].|
  |.......[color=Brown]+[/color]###
  |.[color=Brown]G[/color].....|  ###
  |...[color=White]@[/color].[color=red]h[/color].|    ####
  |.......|
  |.[color=LimeGreen]h[/color].....|
  |.......|
  |.......|
  |.[color=LimeGreen]@[/color]...[color=Brown]k[/color].|
  ---------
[/color]

The goblin charges the dwarf. The dwarf charges the kobold. The gnome charges the hobbit. The hobbit charges the Green-Elf.

The human stands in the middle with his longspear. Which of these charges would he gain double damage against, if he readied against it? Any? All? None?

-Hyp.

In my mind, I would say that a creature who's movement for the charge reduces the distance between the charging creature and the readied character would be subject to the readied action and the 'set spear' (which also makes sense to me in that a set spear would be difficult to use to impale someone moving away from you). You would still get any AOOs for movement, but not the readied action, where the distance was not reduced.

Unfortunately, it has been too many years since I last played Rogue to work out your map and various scenarios, so I can't make a judgement on those.

 

[frankthedm]

you might just lose your action all together if you do not get attacked at all.

There's the risk.

Risk? That sounds like you came out ahead.

 

[Artoomis]

Risk? That sounds like you came out ahead.

How is losing an action coming out ahead? Presumably the bad guy did something else bad for the party, whilst you lost an action - having just done a round with no offensive or defensive action at all.

Not a good thing.

 

[Hypersmurf]

In my mind, I would say that a creature who's movement for the charge reduces the distance between the charging creature and the readied character would be subject to the readied action and the 'set spear' (which also makes sense to me in that a set spear would be difficult to use to impale someone moving away from you). You would still get any AOOs for movement, but not the readied action, where the distance was not reduced.

Unfortunately, it has been too many years since I last played Rogue to work out your map and various scenarios, so I can't make a judgement on those.

I've added a key of sorts

I've also added one more player - the hill-orc. If he charges the elf along the turquoise line, he reduces the distance between himself and the human from 15 feet to 10 feet. But is the human really in a position to 'impale' the orc?

Likewise if the hobbit charges the Gnome. The distance changes from 15 feet to 10 feet; is the human really better placed to 'impale' the hobbit than he is the dwarf(h) who charges the kobold?

It gets even more complicated if we posit a situation like this:

[color=#DDDDDD]
  ----------
  |........|
  |.......[color=LimeGreen]h[/color]|
  |..[color=White]@[/color]...[color=Turquoise][b],[/b][/color].|
  |.....[color=Turquoise][b],[/b][/color]..|
  |....[color=Red][b],[/b][/color]...|
  |...[color=Turquoise][b],[/b][/color]....|
  |..[color=Turquoise][b],[/b][/color].....|
  |.[color=SlateGray]o[/color]......|
  ----------
[/color]

The goblin charges the hobbit along the turquoise line. At the point that he reaches the red square, he is moving from a square 15 feet away (too far to reach with a 10' reach weapon) to a square 15 feet away (within reach of a 10' reach weapon). Does this count as 'distance decreasing'? Both squares are 15 feet away, but one is a closer 15 feet than the other fifteen feet, isn't it?

But how does one 'impale' a creature moving perpendicular to the line of one's spear?

-Hyp.

 

[IanB]

Well, I think we are just not talking about the same thing at all. The discussion revolves around whether readying against a charge allows you to also ready against a non-charge. I said that if you rule 'yes' there's no downside to readying against a charge -- you would always do so just in case you get charged because you lose nothing as compared to just readying. I'm not talking about readying in general vs. not readying.

I disagree that there is no downside; the downside is you must use one of the weapons that has 'ready vs. charge' capability (spear, longspear, halberd, trident) which tend to do less damage compared to other weapons in their category.

Longspear, for example, is a 2 handed reach weapon that does d8/x3. The other 2 in that category that have special abilities do 2d4/x3, giving them slightly higher damage. The weapon in the category that has no special abilities does d10/x3. It should be pointed out, of course, that the longspear is simple and that may explain the damage difference.

Trident is a one handed martial weapon, and does less average damage at d8/x2 than the weapons in the category without special abilities.

The halberd is a 2 handed martial non-reach weapon that does d10/x3 and has 2 damage types, 'set against charge' and 'trip attack' specials. It has lower average damage than the greatsword, falchion, and greataxe, which have no special abilities. The regular spear, as a simple weapon, suffers even more in comparison.

I think that qualifies as a downside.

(Also, the greatclub is subpar and should probably have its damage and crit improved.)

EDIT: Also I think your goblin is the wrong color based on the last build of NH I played, Hypersmurf.

 

[Peter Gibbons]

It just seems silly to me to not get your readied attack if say the enemy just double moves or runs up into your threatened area instead.

I agree.

FWIW, I don't think the rules require a spear-user to Ready an action with the trigger: "If so-and-so Charges, I..." I would consider a trigger such as "If so-and-so enters my threatened area" to be "setting one's spear against" a (possible) charge. But then, I tend to favor more flexible Readies than the core rules assume. It's entirely possible that the PHB authors really did intend to force spear-users to Ready against either charging opponents or double-moving opponents.

 

[Infiniti2000]

I disagree that there is no downside; the downside is you must use one of the weapons that has 'ready vs. charge' capability (spear, longspear, halberd, trident) which tend to do less damage compared to other weapons in their category.

That's not a downside, that's a given. The discussion is immaterial unless we're talking about readying with such a weapon.

This isn't a discussion on whether or not you should ready an action or delay. It's about the facets of readying against a charge versus purely readying. If you don't have a valid weapon, then the issue is moot, is it not? You merely ready, having no other option.

 

[Hypersmurf]

EDIT: Also I think your goblin is the wrong color based on the last build of NH I played, Hypersmurf.

It's entirely possible - it's been a while

Should be a lighter grey?

-Hyp.