Shackled City vs Age of Worms. FIGHT!

[Davelozzi]

Might even have to be cut into two books or one hardcover book and a PDF download for support. It'll be interesting to see what happens.

I think that one book and a download would be the way to go. The highlights of Wormfood could make it into the appendix (the Prc, and maybe the neighborhood write up), but most of that stuff is not nearly as necessary (or as cool) as the stuff in Dungeon.

 

[Shane_Leahy]

AoW all the way. Read some of SC but running AoW.

What sells it for me is the Web downloads. I am running the game using Fantasy Grounds over the internet, and having all the maps and pics already done makes it that much better.

I also like the old school Greyhawk feel. Might give SC a try either when AoW is done or with another group.

 

[Nightfall]

Joe,

If the market can support Ptlous(sp), I think it can support a massive AoW book. In any case like you I am interested to see how this will develop. But just have to wait and see.

 

[jdrakeh]

Uhm it's only tired IF you find the prospect of trying to stop impending world doom via a Demi god now lesser god entering your world.

For those who have seen this same plotline many times in previous versions of AD&D and other fantasy games (Shadoworld in particular comes to mind) it can, indeed, be very tiring. I've only played through two such scenarios, myself, so the idea didn't bore me to tears, but I can see where it might be very 'been there, done that' for many people.

 

[Nightfall]

Riiightt....like everything else done in the fantasy genre is "unique" or "creative" all the time.

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

Put me in the AoW crowd.

As good as Shackled City is, nothing has made me want to drop my current campaign and run a new one like Age of Worms. The latest installment was extremely cool.

 

[jdrakeh]

Riiightt....like everything else done in the fantasy genre is "unique" or "creative" all the time.

Please read my posts before you respond to them. I never said that "everything else done in the fantasy genre is 'unique' or 'creative' all the time" - I didn't even suggest it. What I did suggest is that some things have been done repetatively and/or more than other things, which is absolutely true. I also siad that I could see where somebody who has done 'Thing X' many different times might grow bored with it, which I don't think is an unreasonable thing.

 

[Steel_Wind]

AoW is a clearly superior product in almost every way you can measure it.

• Coherency of Vision & Storyline: The first Adv Path was literally made up as they went along with no idea of the destination or how it was going to get there; Age of Worms was conceived from the start as a story line with foreshadows, recurring NPCs, expanding magic items and expandable hooks throughout.
• Coherency of Presentation: The art for AoW has been consistent as has the presentation.
• Assurance of Publication: The first Adventure Path was an ad hoc series without predictable publication dates. You essentially could not run the SC until it was complete - or nearly so - without a reasonable chance of being concerned your adventurers were going to get ahead of the published adventures. AoW is once a month for 12 issues straight. It has become the closest thing to a shared experience that we have in the 21st century of gaming
• Multiple Periodical Support: AoW has received add in maps within Dungeon, extra backdrops that went beyond that delivered for Cauldron, follows on the heels of the Greyhawk 4 poster maps series and every issue if Dragon supports the Adv Path all the way through. The comparison is night and day: SC was an a meandering adventure of "maybe" status; AoW is a pedal to the metal, all cylinders firing EVENT.
• Extensive Online Support: The AoW overload and the monthly support in the online supplements in Dungeon quite simply: rocks. This was Ennie award winning support for a reason folks.
• Superior Writing: The AoW benefits from Dungeon's finest writers contributing to the epic. While SC had some bright lights too - AoW's is - again - the Full Monty approach.
• Superior Production Values: Again, artwork, time spent in development and the overall thrust of both of Paizo's periodicals have been supporting AoW throughout. They spent more money on the 2.0 product line - pure and simple - and it shows.
  

The result is the Age of Worms is qualitatively and quantitatively better in every single respect. I'd go so far as to say that I don't think that anyone can objectively defend the superiority of SC over AoW. The only reason why a given DM might prefer SC over AoW is purely for the Planescapey flavor of SC. If Planescapey feel is what you want - if that's your cuppa tea - then I can see this as being the major subjective reason why SC appeals to you.

But by any other measure, and certainly any objective measure ,the Age of Worms is a superior product line which builds with the knowledge of all the errors and mistakes made with the first Adv Path and has done its level best to avoid them. The Hall of Harsh Reflections aside (not the best of the series, but by no means is it a bad module) it's been a resounding success.

Not only is AoW better, I'd go so far as to say it's not even close.

 

[Pants]

The Hall of Harsh Reflections aside (not the best of the series, but by no means is it a bad module) it's been a resounding success.

Hm, interesting. I've found the Hall of Harsh Reflections to be one of the stronger entries in the series (with Encounter at Blackwall Keep and Three Faces of Evil being the weakest), though I have yet to run it.

So, maybe that's the qualifier, it reads better than it runs.

 

[Psion]

I'd go so far as to say that I don't think that anyone can objectively defend the superiority of SC over AoW.

I'm thinking AoW has some great flavor and will end up being a great series, and does have the benefit of better planning and learning lessons from SC.

That said, I don't think the case is as unequivocal as you make it out to be. You play the "objective" card but really your highly theoretical analysis isn't "objective" as you make out. For example, you point to cohency of art as an objective merit of AoW; some might consider variety a virtue that gives the SC texture.

Not that I disagree with where you are going, I'm jes' saying.