Shades

[SolitonMan]

... but to remove that text, you'd actually have to copy the wording of Shades and then go in to deliberately remove the part referring to the sorcerer/wizard spell list...

Yeah! But leaving in the reference to shadow conjuration leaves one to wonder - just how much does shades function like it?

I'd like to see Jason Bulmahn comment on this, and clearly, explicitly, unambiguously define exactly what shades is allowed to do.

 

[Greenfield]

So... you're demanding clearly defined areas of uncertainty?

Just asking...

 

[RUMBLETiGER]

Notice that this removes the "sorcerer and wizard" which appears between "mimics" and "conjuration" in the SRD version of the spell. So based on the loose interpretation which supports removing subschool limitations, the PRD version would allow a wizard to cast divine conjurations as well. And that list includes resurrection - don't even need a cleric anymore! Wheeee!!! IMHO.

The departed soul has a chance to doubt that it really gets to return to the Material Plane, and if doubting, only 80% of him or herself makes it back to life.

 

[Visigani]

I thought everyone knew this? I've been arguing for months that Illusion is crazy powerful.... See: Arcane Disciple and putting rather interesting divine spells onto your arcane spell list.

 

[SolitonMan]

So... you're demanding clearly defined areas of uncertainty?

Just asking...

I'd like to see Shades re-written to something similar to one of the following options, depending on the designer's intentions:

(1) [Shades is Shadow Conjuration for sorcerer/wizard spells of 8th level or lower] - "This spell functions like shadow conjuration, except that it duplicates any sorcerer or wizard conjuration (summoning) or conjuration (creation) spell of 8th level or lower. The illusory conjurations created deal four-fifths (80%) damage to nonbelievers, and non-damaging effects are 80% likely to work against nonbelievers."

(2) [Shades is Shadow Conjuration with subschool limitations removed] - "This spell functions like shadow conjuration, except that it duplicates any sorcerer or wizard conjuration spell of 8th level or lower. Unlike shadow conjuration, shades is not limited to the creation and summoning subschools of conjuration. Any sorcerer or wizard conjuration spell of 8th level or lower may be duplicated.

The illusory conjurations created deal four-fifths (80%) damage to nonbelievers, and non-damaging effects are 80% likely to work against nonbelievers."

(3) [Shades duplicates any conjuration of 8th level or lower] - "This spell functions like shadow conjuration with the following exceptions: the duplicated spells are not limited by subschool, the duplicated spells are not limited to conjuration spells from the sorcerer/wizard spell list and may in fact duplicate ANY conjuration spell, and the level limit for duplicated spells is 8th.

The illusory conjurations created deal four-fifths (80%) damage to nonbelievers, and non-damaging effects are 80% likely to work against nonbelievers."

YMMV, but I believe that if shades were written with one of these options it would be clear what the designer intended.