Shadow as a "power source"?

[Baron Opal]

There are a lot of mythical connotations about shadows.

1700's folk tales say that you can tell who has sold their soul to the Devil as they no longer cast a shadow.

Some medieval stories state that witches and sorcerors can send their shadows to spy on others or send messages to their peers.

Shadows can be tied to mirrors, "casting a dark reflection". A shadow world is a sinister reflection of the real world where things are reflected in the worst possible light (as it were).

Shadows are part of the gloom of night, and perhaps the stuff of dreams. They can be molded into what you need or what others fear.

Fear, cold, secrets, the unknown, ghosts, the hidden are all thematic of shadows and darkness.

 

[Viking Bastard]

Is it truly the case that the old 3E "Negative Energy Plane" is the same thing as the Shadowfell?

I thought that the old "plane of shadow" (or demiplane, whatever it was... don't have my old books handy) became the Shadowfell in 4E.

It is both. 4e simplified the cosmology so the Shadowfell is the Plane of Shadow, the Domains of Dread, and the Negative Energy Plane all rolled into one.

 

[the Jester]

Is it truly the case that the old 3E "Negative Energy Plane" is the same thing as the Shadowfell?

I thought that the old "plane of shadow" (or demiplane, whatever it was... don't have my old books handy) became the Shadowfell in 4E.

They more or less mated and fused.

Looking at it from a arcanoscientific perspective, think of most power sources as representing the energy of one plane: Divine is the Astral Sea, Arcane is the Feywild, Shadow is the Shadowfell, Primal is the World. Psionic is drawn from the World's reaction against the Far Realms, so you can call it the Far Realms source if you squint at it just right. Martial is the exception- it's the power source that comes entirely from one's own internal skill and development (which is why the more magicky ranger powers are actually Primal).

 

[Asmor]

It's also worth noting that cold is just a lack of heat, but most people don't have a problem with cold being a 'thing' in RPGs.

 

[cpendlet]

Is it truly the case that the old 3E "Negative Energy Plane" is the same thing as the Shadowfell?

I thought that the old "plane of shadow" (or demiplane, whatever it was... don't have my old books handy) became the Shadowfell in 4E.

I thought that 4e Shadowfell was pulling stuff from the old negative energy and shadow planes? I don't know where I got this idea from so I may be wrong.

 

[Droogie128]

Shadow is one of the most powerful sources one can wield. It's the power over Darkness, which triggers our most primal fear... the fear of the unknown.

So, yes, Shadow deserves to be a power source. As much as any "element" would, anyway.

 

[Rechan]

I'd point out that the Shadowfell is also the plane of the dead. Unlike other settings where the dead do not pass go, do not collect $200, they go straight to the plane of the God that claims them (or the plane of the soul's alignment), souls in the 4e cosmology go to the Shadowfell. Then the Raven Queen, like Osirus or Hades or an afterlife traffic cop, directs souls where they are meant to go and makes sure they get there.

So it's a combination of:
The Underworld
The Plane of Shadow
The Negative Energy Plane (I presume this is just um, decay or entropy or something)

Since you can't reckon the Shadow power source because it's not scientific, how did you handle the Plane of Shadow?

It's also worth noting that cold is just a lack of heat, but most people don't have a problem with cold being a 'thing' in RPGs.

Or that death is simply the absence of life but that's also a "thing".

 

[Incenjucar]

It may be more difficult for those who have been raised around lots of high-intensity artificial lighting to really understand shadows in the same way as someone raised in a time where fire, celestial objects, lightning, and bio-luminescence were the only light sources.

I highly recommend looking up Shadow Optical Illusions and Shadow Puppets on the internet, as just a start.

 

[Therise]

Interesting thoughts, thanks everyone for your input on this. Ultimately, I think it comes down to whether or not I want to have Shadow on equal footing with Arcane and Divine (or other sources). Do I really want to make Shadow, darkness, etc. into a big core feature of the setting I use? I have to say, definitely not.

Perhaps having used the Forgotten Realms for years is a part of this. In the past, the planes of shadow, negative energy, and the dead were entirely separate things in FR. Even in 4E, the Shadowfell isn't the plane of the dead, where the god of the dead resides. So making a big mash-up of the negative energy plane, shadow, and the dead really doesn't work that well for me. It may work well for others, who like those themes and what they say about the world and the planes, but it's just not for me.

For my personal tastes, it puts way too much emphasis on darkness and shadow in terms of various cultural mythologies, what people fear, and draws away from other things I'd prefer to have in the forefront (conceptually) for the world setting. I'm definitely not going to get rid of shadow-magic, shadow entities, or races like the shadowvar, but I'd rather not put those things front and center and have them all deeply linked through a common and central power source. So I think I'm going to stay with all three planes as being separate, and shadow-magic will simply remain a sub-class of the arcane (or divine, depending on the nature of the magic).

 

[Rechan]

Do I really want to make Shadow, darkness, etc. into a big core feature of the setting I use? I have to say, definitely not.

How exactly would it become Core feature of the Setting?

I really think you're thinking about this way too hard. Look at the power sources and classes:

Arcane
Swordmage
Artificer
Sorcerer
Warlock
Wizard
Bard

Divine
Runepriest
Avenger
Paladin
Cleric
Invoker

Primal
Druid
Barbarian
Shaman
Seeker
Warden

Martial
Fighter
Rogue
Ranger
Warlord

Psionic
Monk
Psion
Battlemind
Ardent

Shadow
Assassin
Vampire

2 out of 26 classes run on shadow. One of which is a vampire, so it's basically "Undead powers". You may have a few Wizard or other class powers (the necromancer and fear based powers in HoS, a few powers in Dragon) but that's it. Going by the existing rules, Psionics has more of a presence than the Shadow power source. The only actual Setting component is the Shadowfell. So it's really, really unlikely to come up at all unless you have players who demand to play a lot of Assassins.

But there's a real easy solution for an FR guy like yourself: The Shadow Weave. Just say the Shadow power source comes out of the Shadow Weave.