OSR Do Shadows make noise?

[James Gasik]

I'm pretty sure in 3.x, intangible creatures were said to make no noise...yeah, here it is:

"An incorporeal creature moves silently and cannot be heard with Listen checks if it doesn’t wish to be."

So I have no problem with one being silent. I mean, if an Owl can make virtually no noise in flight, I see no reason why something that can't even interact with solid objects would make noise at all.

 

[Brendan Byrd]

That is a gloriously messed up idea.

What do you think…some type of “programmed illusion” paired with an “extinguish flame” wrapped up in a magical trap (that resets itself)?
10’ cubic area of effect, and the trap itself located on the ceiling?

(The Vampire’s point of view: Pesky adventurers and the dirt they tend track over beautiful thaumaturgic patterns)

 

[Reynard]

What do you think…some type of “programmed illusion” paired with an “extinguish flame” wrapped up in a magical trap (that resets itself)?
10’ cubic area of effect, and the trap itself located on the ceiling?

(The Vampire’s point of view: Pesky adventurers and the dirt they tend track over beautiful thaumaturgic patterns)

What do you need all the detail for?

"In the Tomb of Fallen Selves, a character's own shadow can animate and work against the character. These shadows are not combatants but can perform frustrating actions such as blowing out light sources, interrupting rests and frustrating stealth attempts."

That's all you need.

 

[Brendan Byrd]

What do you need all the detail for?

"In the Tomb of Fallen Selves, a character's own shadow can animate and work against the character. These shadows are not combatants but can perform frustrating actions such as blowing out light sources, interrupting rests and frustrating stealth attempts."

That's all you need.

Aha.
Seems that has all been sorted then.
I’m lacking a bit of context, what game is this from?

 

[Reynard]

Aha.
Seems that has all been sorted then.
I’m lacking a bit of context, what game is this from?

Whatever one your running, my dude.

 

[GMMichael]

My wife . . .

Thought you were going to end this with . . . "definitely doesn't make noise if she doesn't want to."

Anyway, I thought some shadows floated around whispering, "kill kill kill kill."

 

[Jahydin]

Silent, especially since it plays into how you want the story to be told.

Great idea too btw. Can just see slowly building up clues each time it happens until the PCs figure out whats going on and then watching them come up with a clever idea to detect and stop it from happening again. Too fun. This is why I love TTRPGs.

 

[Gus L]

So, what to you think? Shadows: silent or not?

Do you want them to in the specific location you are using them in?

I'm not one for monsters being entirely absolute or set - variation within monster types seems reasonable. Even if one keeps the "shadow" as a being of negative energy from D&D these could manifest differently. They might be silent and stealthy (I'd give them a high surprise chance then) or they might be immediately noticeable because of the subtle hissing sound of reality sliding back into the voids they carve through it when moving. They might whisper things, they might be silent but detectable by the sense of fundamental wrongness that one feels in their presence.

Again I'd use any and all of these answers for shadows in my games - depending on what's right for the history and ecology of the location they are present in. Taxonomy is such an enlightenment era concept and fantasy RPGs seem generally set in a place with different ideas about the world - monsters don't need to be entirely categorizable (though this helps players develop meta-knowledge about the setting, and that can be a key aspect of some play styles).

One could also read this bit by Zedeck Siew - repeating a conversation several of us had a few years back about monster taxonomies. It's worth a read anyway I think.

D&D's Obsession With Taxonomy

Like virtually everybody else in the TTRPG space I downloaded One D&D's playtest document to see what the fuss was. One of the eyebrow-raising bits in that document is the boxed text titled "Children...

slowlorispress.com

 

[Voadam]

Shadows in D&D are weird and quite varied across editions.

Basic, where undead explicitly make no noise, has them as not undead. OD&D has them as explicitly not undead as well. 4e puts them as shadow type and explicitly not undead too. AD&D-3e +5e has them as undead.

OD&D has them as non-corporeal. 2e talks about them throwing treasure in wells as if they were physical. It also has the weird alien creature shadow picture in both the MC and MM. 3e has them as fully incorporeal again but now flying for the first time. 4e they do not fly but they are insubstantial. 5e they don't fly and only makes them able to go through 1 inch openings without squeezing, they don't get the 5e incorporeal movement of things like ghosts and wraiths.

In 2e your body is gone once you get turned into a shadow, in 5e they separate on death/spawning and if the body is raised it does not have a shadow of its own until the spawned shadow is killed.

They generally have low intelligence but are not mindless. Generally this would indicate an ability to speak in a number of editions.

Their strength drain can be really deadly, particularly if you are facing a pack of these low level monsters (3e in particular). They are in the spawning can get exponentially apocalyptic real quick category of undead/monsters. In a number of editions they require magic to hurt them at all, in 5e 14 they just have resistance to nonmagic weapons and in 5e 24 no resistance, you can punch them for full effect.

I don't think there is any actual discussion of whether they can talk or not in their monster book entries. I am not familiar with any examples of them doing so in an adventure or sourcebook.

 

[Brendan Byrd]

Their strength drain can be really deadly, particularly if you are facing a pack of these low level monsters (3e in particular). They are in the spawning can get exponentially apocalyptic real quick category of undead/monsters.

I don't think there is any actual discussion of whether they can talk or not in their monster book entries. I am not familiar with any examples of them doing so in an adventure or sourcebook.

My first tangential thought had been: why is this opponent putting out torches when it could be draining strength? That is why my thought processes then moved toward magic as the cause of the effect.
(Horror genre + Loony Tunes)
But that is a second tangential thought.