Shadow Conjuration

[juliaromero]

So I have some questions about Shadow Conjuration. I like how they are always very detailed in the rules about all combat related uses of something and completely ignore most everything else. Do they expect all games to only be all combat?

Anyway, enough side rant and back to the question. If you disbelieve a shadow conjured creature it's non-damagin abilities are only 20% likely to work. What the heck does this mean if the creature can do something like teleport itself? They are obviously only talking about combat related powers in the description which I find annoying. Are there rules somewhere else I missed? What about creating a phantom steed? It seems there are no penalties whether you believe or not for this one. speaking of which ... can you choose to believe your own illusions? Technically by the rules you can choose to fail any saving throw on purpose. Seems kind of silly though. You conjure something with healing ... it only heals you 20% of the points? Unless you choose to blieve your own illusion then it heals you 100%? Uh, what?

Back to the teleport issue ... it's in a crowd of people half belive half don't ... is does this affect it's teleport chance of success? Uh, what?

 

[youspoonybard]

Doesn't it only let you cast Conjuration (Summoning) or Conjuration (Creation) spells?

 

[juliaromero]

Doesn't it only let you cast Conjuration (Summoning) or Conjuration (Creation) spells?

Yes ... doesn't change anything I wrote ... what is that is confusing you?

 

[youspoonybard]

Can't they automatically fail their save?

Therefore, it would work for them no matter what.

Sorry about the previous comment : P.

 

[Wippit Guud]

"Against disbelievers, they are 20% likely to work"

If it's casting someone on itself (such as teleport), it still works. The conjuration doesn't disbelieve itself.

 

[shilsen]

Back to the teleport issue ... it's in a crowd of people half belive half don't ... is does this affect it's teleport chance of success? Uh, what?

It can't teleport. That's got nothing to do with the Shadow Conjuration spell but the fact that summoned creatures cannot teleport (at least not in 3.5).

 

[juliaromero]

It can't teleport. That's got nothing to do with the Shadow Conjuration spell but the fact that summoned creatures cannot teleport (at least not in 3.5).

Ok, that was a completely silly and useless response. If you read my post it should be quite clear that that was a random example and nothing to do with the point of my question.

Pick some random non-targeting ability *like* teleport. How about the magically ability to make your nose pink, whatever. Try and think a little before posting something like this.

 

[James McMurray]

An ability that affets itself will always work. If it has the ability to turn its nose pink, its nose will always turn pink.

An ability that affects itself and others (bardic music for instance) would always affect itself, but only have a 20% chance of affecting anyone that made their save.

IF it was something with healing, you would automatically disbelieve (you know its an illusion, and thus shouldn't be allowed a save. Thus only the 20% of the healing that was real would affect you. Your allies could be healed though, and would get saves of their own to see if it was full or 20%.

 

[juliaromero]

An ability that affets itself will always work. If it has the ability to turn its nose pink, its nose will always turn pink.

An ability that affects itself and others (bardic music for instance) would always affect itself, but only have a 20% chance of affecting anyone that made their save.

IF it was something with healing, you would automatically disbelieve (you know its an illusion, and thus shouldn't be allowed a save. Thus only the 20% of the healing that was real would affect you. Your allies could be healed though, and would get saves of their own to see if it was full or 20%.

That would be my initial inclination too. But what about something like, I don't know, a light spell? Doesn't only affect you ... so people who believe the illusion can see better than people who don't? Or here's a good one ... you summon something with the ability to gate in other creatures ... how does that work out?

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

My own take on this: for noncombat spells that effect foes, they get their save.

So, if you used Shadow Conjuration to cast Mage Armor, every foe would get a will save to attack AC +1 instead of AC +4.

For noncombat spells that effect primarily you, you can't voluntarily fail to disbelieve your own illusion. You know it's an illusion. You're the one casting it.
A spell like Phantom Steed will conjure a creature that is only 20% as effective as usual--it will have 2 hp +1/4 clvl. It will have a carrying capacity of 20%*(rider's weight +10lb/clvl)--so except for very small and light casters (or very high level casters), it will be unable to support the weight of a rider.

Similarly, a Shadow Conjuration Secure Shelter would only block 20% of the rain and weather.