Shadow of the Demon Lord - your analysis?

[Blue Orange]

His success was never in question. The question is how, given the product looks excellent, why is it not bigger, how would you get it in the hands of more people.

Maybe the answer is that the TTRPG industry is too small, there is only room for one main game and then the other 10% is split over too small a user base. While the Crit Role/DnD exploded in size, a lot of that is people who probably never pick up another TTRPG game.

Nah, that's the point. It's a great game, it's just not that successful because it's not different enough from D&D.

I guess the question is why it doesn't become a semi-successful Palladium-like also-ran.

 

[BrokenTwin]

I dropped D&D 5E for SotDL as my primary fantasy system, but ultimately, it is a d20 fantasy heartbreaker trying to occupy a similar playerbase to D&D (just fantasy horror instead of heroic fantasy). His current project, Shadow of the Weird Wizard, is an evolution of the system that's closer to 13th Age than D&D 5E, but as it is heroic fantasy, it will likely occupy an even smaller niche, given that it's straight up heroic fantasy. Which is a shame, because it seems like a solid evolution of the system, even if it is more high-power than I prefer.

But still, it's a fantastic system that I thoroughly enjoy.

 

[TerraDave]

Nah, that's the point. It's a great game, it's just not that successful because it's not different enough from D&D.

I guess the question is why it doesn't become a semi-successful Palladium-like also-ran.

I think it is semi-successful, or just successful. He's doing it and people are playing it.

I see no reason to believe that making it more different will make it more successful. There are vast numbers of RPGs out there that are neither like D&D nor very successful at all. And more seem to come out all the time.

 

[TerraDave]

His success was never in question. The question is how, given the product looks excellent, why is it not bigger, how would you get it in the hands of more people.

Big relative to what? There are hundreds of RPGs, if not thousands. We have heard of this one. We know people buy stuff for it. Given its a one person operation it seems to be doing very well.

If you are asking, do I think that a one person fantasy heartbreaker is going to compete with games from Free League or Modiphius, maybe not. But I would not be surprised if it does as well as some of their games.

 

[BrokenTwin]

Yeah, by t he standards of "every RPG but D&D", Schawlb has been successful. SotDL has a couple of third party settings written for it (including a Souls clone that I adore), is constantly being updated, and while the Discord chat is small, it's friendly and active.

 

[Vaslov]

Last year I wrapped up a SotDL campaign. The group i play with rotates DMs with at least 3 different campaigns going on. Generally ever 4-5 weeks we swap campaigns. The other two GMs are generally running 5e games during this time. I have no desire to run a 5e game so I am always pulling the table into a new direction to try out different systems. Some of them work for our table. Some don't.

SotDL worked for the table. Things I like about it.

• The rules are 5e adjacent enough that everyone was able to pick up the system super fast.
• Initiative. Players go first. Monster stats anticipate this. No rolls for initiative. Just jump in and start the fight. I dislike waiting for initiative rolls and discussions around who wins ties. Get me to the combat!
• The modular character class system allowed everyone to tailor their character on the fly as they level. So much for flexible than 5e. All of the characters were effective within their area of expertise.
• I generally kept it theater of the mind as I'm a lazy dm, but for a couple of the big battles I did break out mini's that we use for D&D. Game worked well in either mode.
• After about 5 or 6 games I had a good feel for the monster builds and could easily customize them w/o even needing to crack the bestiary. I typically just read it for inspiration pulling interesting powers out as needed.
• The random magic item table was great. There were a few duds, but for the most part some interesting items came out, some of which ended up being character defining.
• As a GM I found SotDL very simple to run and prepare for, which is key for me. I do not find that the case for 5e after the first few levels.
• I used modules for the first two adventures. After that I found SotDL straight forward enough I built out my own sandbox from there.
• Anecdotally, the players asked me to run the game as an Evil Player campaign. The first few games characters were on the high speed train to corruptionville. Surprisingly most of them started acting all heroic once they saw how corrupt the world was despite their attempts to be the bad guys. Was a fun way to play in the setting.
• Taking inspiration from Bloodborne as the characters gained insanity points they started to see corruption in the world others could not. The higher the insanity the more they got clues. This gave the players incentive to keep some insanity instead of trying to purge it on first contact.

The game I ran was in the default setting. After finishing the campaign I would suggest it would be super easy to use the same system for just about any fantasy or steampunk setting. Drop the horror and sanity checks and a few of the schools of magic and you have the basic D&D like chassis. I will agree with vince's comment that there are some juvenile aspects to both the setting, magic and a some of the random tables. Easy enough to purge those from your game if so desired by the table IMO. Just like with D&D if not running steampunk drop the Warforged like ancestry, guns and bombs. Done.

My overall opinion, if you want a lighter D&D rules feeling that is easier to GM it is worth the investment.

 

[Vaslov]

It is also listed as Adamantine best seller on drivethrurpg. That puts it in the top 0.12% of products they have sold. I'd call that pretty successful.

DriveThruRPG

www.drivethrurpg.com

DriveThruRPG.com

www.drivethrurpg.com

 

[TheAlkaizer]

The name also doesn't say much. It sounds more like an adventure, or a setting than a game. The name also kind of implies somewhat dark, maybe gritty? Where Dungeons & Dragons is much more neutral and describe much better the general fantasy genre. For years I thought Shadow of the Demon Lord was a gritty setting for D&D.

 

[Jd Smith1]

It is an example of success being relative.

The odds of anyone unseating D&D, or even approaching it, are incredibly poor. It is fueled by outside money, and has its roots going back to the dawn of the hobby.

The only chance I could see is a RPG based directly upon a highly popular media series (Star Wars, LotR) by a company with serious backing, no license issues, and a really innovative system.

In other words, little chance. The number of LotR and Star Wars RPGs that have come and gone since the hobby started proves that.

 

[cavetroll]

SotDL worked for the table. Things I like about it.

Great review, thats the kind of review I'd like for my "ideal ttrpg".