Shadow Strike Rogue power bugged...

[RigaMortus2]

Consider

H _ _ _ _ x
_ _ F _ _ _

Hidden rogue H is moving to x using the Shadow Stride power. Adjacent to their second square of movement is an enemy Fighter.

Now, if H's check at x beats F's passive Perception, H is hidden the whole way and enemy Fighter doesn't get an OA.

If H's check at x does not beat F's passive Perception, H is not hidden the whole way and enemy Fighter gets an OA. If the OA hits, H never makes it to x, where they made the check to decide if they were hidden!

This illustrates a general bug in using Stealth as part of move actions. The ruling that consistently works is that a Rogue using Stealth as part of a move action makes that check at the end and is never hidden until then.

 

[Kordeth]

I agree that making the Stealth check at the end of the movement with this power creates weird situations, but your "fix" makes the power do absolutely nothing (and also leads to its own weird edge cases, where a character can be hidden behind a wall at the start of his movement, hidden behind the same wall at the end of his movement, but is somehow unable remain hidden as he crawls along behind the wall).

The solution that "consistently works" seems to me to be to roll the Stealth check at the beginning of the movement.As long as you retain cover and/or concealment in each square of movement, you remain hidden. Shadow Stride then allows you to remain hidden for the entire move as long as you start and end in cover/concealment.

 

[Phesic]

The power is worded a little weirdly, but the intention is clear. Without this power, you have to maintain cover or concealment for every square you cross. with it, as long as you can reach COVER you can make a stealth check to remain hidden. If the stealth check fails, you are spotted. As for when, whenever it's dramatically appropriate. They leave that point vague because they can't know every situation. In your case, and AO as he leaves the square next to the guard would be a nice dramatic way of describing things. The guard spinning around as something catches his eye to hit him just as he's moving out of reach.

Or you could determine it by the breadth of failure. Miss it by 5 or more and he spots you as soon as you leave concealment.

 

[clearstream]

The power is worded a little weirdly, but the intention is clear. Without this power, you have to maintain cover or concealment for every square you cross. with it, as long as you can reach COVER you can make a stealth check to remain hidden. If the stealth check fails, you are spotted. As for when, whenever it's dramatically appropriate. They leave that point vague because they can't know every situation. In your case, and AO as he leaves the square next to the guard would be a nice dramatic way of describing things. The guard spinning around as something catches his eye to hit him just as he's moving out of reach.

Oh ho! It's more fun than that! If the Rogue misses their Stealth check, but then the Fighter misses his OA check, the Rogue gets another shot at Stealth. If he misses that, does the Fighter get another OA?

Now add one more participant

H _ _ _ _ _ x
_ _ E _ F _ _

Fighter's friend E needs to know if H's Stealth failed and Fighter's OA hit, so E can make their own OA. That's because if Fighter missed, H got another chance at their Stealth check, but hey, what say H is on low HP and E's attack kills them before they reach F? Then F's OA never occurred, so H isn't dead anymore, so survives to reach F...

-vk

 

[MarkB]

Oh ho! It's more fun than that! If the Rogue misses their Stealth check, but then the Fighter misses his OA check, the Rogue gets another shot at Stealth.

Whyso? He's only rolling once for Stealth, at the end of his move.

If he fails, and that failure means he'd have been spotted by someone who could interrupt his movement, then you wind the clock back to that moment and go from there - but his Stealth check result stands.

 

[clearstream]

Whyso? He's only rolling once for Stealth, at the end of his move.

If he fails, and that failure means he'd have been spotted by someone who could interrupt his movement, then you wind the clock back to that moment and go from there - but his Stealth check result stands.

Perhaps you're right. At this point I'm just making fun with these cases. Point is, it needs cleaning up, don't it.

-vk

 

[MarkB]

Perhaps you're right. At this point I'm just making fun with these cases. Point is, it needs cleaning up, don't it.

-vk

Agreed. Making a check at the end of your movement to find out whether you were interrupted during your move is a very cumbersome mechanic.

In play, I'd tend to have the DM roll the check secretly at the start of the move, then let the player move. If he's interrupted he knows he failed - otherwise, inform him at the end of his action what his check result was.

 

[clearstream]

Agreed. Making a check at the end of your movement to find out whether you were interrupted during your move is a very cumbersome mechanic.

In play, I'd tend to have the DM roll the check secretly at the start of the move, then let the player move. If he's interrupted he knows he failed - otherwise, inform him at the end of his action what his check result was.

I'm inclining toward making the check first too. That idea of keeping it secret is interesting, is the idea just to make state rewrites less SOD-destroying?

Also, what do you think of making the check once and then running the effective number square by square? Too cumbersome?

-vk

 

[MarkB]

I'm inclining toward making the check first too. That idea of keeping it secret is interesting, is the idea just to make state rewrites less SOD-destroying?

The way it's written now, the player has to cross his character through the open ground, make the check, and only then know if he was spotted. If you roll first, the player knows he got a crappy Stealth check straightaway, and will either change his mind about leaving cover, or else avoid getting close to anyone who could OA him.

I prefer the secret roll because it preserves that sense of suspense and doesn't let the player metagame his movement choices.

Also, what do you think of making the check once and then running the effective number square by square? Too cumbersome?

-vk

Isn't half the point of Shadow Stride that your effective result doesn't change, because you're not penalised for distance moved?

 

[clearstream]

Isn't half the point of Shadow Stride that your effective result doesn't change, because you're not penalised for distance moved?

Viewing angles might put lightly obscured squares between you and a given observer, but since you've made your check up front...

...do you need to be comparing with Perceptions square by square? Or can that be done up front too?

-vk